Guess what proportion of MPs privately educated in each party. Go on, guess!

Surely some are part state/part private though?

A lot more kids go to private secondary than primary.

I wonder what the numbers are for fully private vs fully state?

Thanks for the link Claig. One thing I hadn't appreciated. When Ken Clarke went to Nottingham High School is was a grammar school. Then, when Ed Balls dad (Michael Balls) successfully campaigned to have all his local grammar schools closed - it went private. And then Michael Balls sent his son there. So when Ed Balls gets all sniffy about his school not being a 'public school' he's right. He actually had a grammar school education - at a fee paying grammar school from which bright but poorer kids had been excluded (thanks to his dad). Yuck - That actually turns my stomach!

twelvety

i agree claig re bringing back the grammars and bright children from poorer families having the right to better education

interesting article showing how much social mobility has declined in politics from the days of Wilson, Healey, Thatcher etc. The destruction of grammar schools has lessened the chances of the working and middle classes.
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1278554/How-privileged-Cabinet-damning-indictment-Britains-compre hensives.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

litchick I was a bit that anyone could post it, couldn't bring myself to acknowledge such ridiculous views!

Its v interesting the 'personality' traits that a politician needs to be successful.I think there must be a huge amount of self confidence involved though.

Can I just say that I think on a parenting website for someone to call a group of children 'thick yocks,' and not be challenged on it even once is appalling. Is it okay to berate entire cohorts of pupils if it proves your point?

As for whether politicians need to be exceptionally bright, I'm not sure. Obviously they need a level of intelligence but aren't a whole host of other skills equally important. Chutzpah for a start. It's hard to put yourself out there so publicly. Articulacy, empathy, good negotaiting skills, high self esteem etc must be vital.

Most of the working class girls who attended my 11+ selective grammar school in the early 70's were either only children, or had only one other sibling. They also had parents who were prepared to tolerate books in the house, and encouraged library membership.

I met lots of girls at Uni in the late 70's, grammar school kids who came from very poor backgrounds, but they almost all came from the above type of background.

I know this must sound weird, but loads of my friends were forced to leave school at 16 (in 1977) because the family needed them to go out to work as soon as possible. You could get good jobs (ie Civil Service) in those days, with very basic (5 "O" levels) qualifications. They needed the money.

It's all about resources. Cream off the most able if you will, but don't ever kid yourself that academic achievement is pure meritocracy. Life ain't like that.

nearly didn't see your link as I'd seen stats in the paper.
Just seen similar stats for the cabinet-guardian website i think

Interesting to hear from an Oxbridger that privates pupils not as inclusive to state schools pupils. Did it matter on size of private school eg Eton compared to 100 pupil local one?

More interesting (I think) than the private school statistic is that all of the people involved in the negotiations (from all three parties) all went to Oxford bar one, who went to Manchester.

That was my point about Oxbridge- Hard work to get there and more so if from State school. Which then sets you up for life as a hard worker. I do also wonder about the networking aspect of it .

No-one can help the school they went to; it's their parents choice, not theirs.

However, as a member of the voting public I would prefer it if my MP had been to a state school and thus mixed with a wider section of the population.

As for the Oxbridge thing, well, that is an elitist education for very bright 18 year olds. However, Oxbridge entrance is purely about being bright and surely it's good if a politician is clever.

As one who went to Cambridge I didn't find it particularly posh; it was all so difficult that we were all dead worried whether from Eton or our local comp. (The academic expectations are a levelling experience) And, going to Cambridge didn't make me forget my roots; if anything I became more concerned about the wider world. Partly, because the behaviour of some of the students from public schools was so appalling!

I would also like to see the proportion that went to Oxbridge. Saw the stats for private school in the Observer and the stats on upcoming MPs and lots went to Oxbridge & state schools. So not badly educated but V hardworking and probably ambitious too. Neither of which I would mind inan MP as long as they don't become corrupt.

The problem with private education in this context is it shelters people from some of the major issues in society.

The old boy network also concerns me as it excludes good MPs including a lot of women

Thanks. That's quite interesting. I wonder if that's just a coincidence or if there's some sort of cause and effect/ correlation?

(and I don't mean of the divine intervention kind )

I would have assumed the opposite on the "poor society, rich festivals" argument.

Food for thought.

EdgarAllen- I've often heard that point as an argument against faith schools but I'm not sure I understand it. Could you clarify- are rich people just more likely to be religious (hey- maybe God does exist after all?)

yes. Christian churchgoers in the UK are wealthier than average. the church's own research confirms this.

Tories'

TheBride, you're right about some of these "experts". I think the Tory's free school system will allow different models to emerge and compete and we will then see which ones work best and hopefully replicate those.

Is it 100%?

I do love a litte bit that the story of one the Labour Party privately educated minoirity (Transport Sec.) started like this:

"Adonis is the son of an immigrant Greek Cypriot father Nicos, a commis waiter, and an English mother.[4] His mother left the family when he was three and has had no communication with him since.[4] Shortly thereafter, he was placed in care and lived in a council children's home until the age of 11, when Adonis was awarded a local education authority grant to attend Kingham Hill School.[5]"

Claig- I agree, but we dont get there by pretending that every child has the same ability.

I think it's too late and divisive to bring back grammar schools but I do think there needs to be more academic streaming in state schools - how can a teacher be expected to benefit any pupil when there might be a 5 year gap between the most and least able in a single class? Everybody loses like that.

It seems in many state schools that achievement is fine so long as everybody achieves it, which is BS. My friend is a science teacher and he was told not to correct spelling/grammar because "we're not testing English". Wtf? Also, he's not allowed to mark in red.

I just feel sorry for the teachers who have to put up with all this crap from alleged experts in education.