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Original poster

i take it you've all seen this on the news or on here..nick clegg and protesters for PR today in london

41 replies

Heathcliffscathy · 09/05/2010 00:02

I've been out tonight and not seen the news...i don't know what the coverage has been, but this is nick clegg accepting the takebackparliament petition...hope he's really listening

here

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Original poster
Heathcliffscathy · 09/05/2010 20:36

kerrist!

yes you might get a bnp MP or two...THAT'S CALLED DEMOCRACY!!!

you don't get to say, oh well, loads of people voted for you, but heyho, we don't like what you stand for so you don't get into govt.

we don't live in a democracy at the moment, not in any real sense.

OP posts:
OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2010 20:29

that is what I believe

ladylush · 09/05/2010 20:22

Thanks - worked perfectly So, a fairer system for the electorate then.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2010 18:33

try accessing it from here (was a pdf document)

ladylush · 09/05/2010 18:07

Couldn't get that link to work

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2010 17:55

useful q&a on STV

vesela · 09/05/2010 16:17

There would still be a constituency link with multi-member STV. The constituencies would be bigger, but they would have more MPs to cover them. And the MPs within a constituency would be competing to help constituents.

ladylush · 09/05/2010 16:11

Out of protest at PR they'd put BNP as their second vote? Anyone voting for the BNP regardless of whether it is a first or second vote is playing a dangerous game and obviously not thinking about the interests of the county. So going back to your initial point Atlantis, that is what I call selfish.

MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 16:07

atlantis - I suspect those "BNP second" people are tories and the BNP would be eliminated within a seat before the tories are!

Quattrocento · 09/05/2010 16:06

For many MPs the constituency link is not relevant.

Take my SIL's yorkshire constituency - Ed Balls is the newly re-elected MP there. Never set foot in Yorkshire until presented with a safe Labour seat. Not sure how much time he spends there now, tbh

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2010 16:01

screamin - not saying you are wrong would just like to see it for myself because TBP is a an umbrella for a laege number of electoral reform campaign groups, all with their own ideas.

ScreaminEagle · 09/05/2010 16:01

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atlantis · 09/05/2010 15:59

"because thats what was all over their facebook page on Friday. "

I don't do facebook, so who what and how??

ScreaminEagle · 09/05/2010 15:57

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atlantis · 09/05/2010 15:53

Well I hate to think how many seats the BNP will get because I have spoken to a lot of people who said out of protest at PR they will put the BNP as their second vote.

Personally I would have to put UKIP.

We will have to see.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 09/05/2010 14:22

Screamin - what makes you say that TBP want a majority government? I can find nothing that says that at all. They say:

"It is time for the UK to move to a proportional system that ties a party's share of seats to its share of votes across the country. This is the fairest system. It would ensure everyone's vote counts; it would offer voters more choice and it would produce a government and Parliament that represents the British people."

MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 14:16

That analysis only holds if it's list based - which not even the electoral reform society suggests. Even if it's list based, a threshold would count out the vast majority of the "little" seats.

ScreaminEagle · 09/05/2010 14:09

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MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 13:55

The BNP was unlikely to have got a thing under either Alternative Vote or Single Transferrable Vote. Under a list-based system, they are unlikely to get over the threshold.

I keep hearing this, but it's a straw man!

ScreaminEagle · 09/05/2010 13:29

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Chil1234 · 09/05/2010 12:52

Anyone think that if it was put to a referendum both staunch Labour and staunch Conservative supporters would be likely to vote 'no thanks'... since they have the most to lose with the demise of FPTP? And would this unlikely alliance add up to more than 50% of the electorate?

MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 12:40

If they got the majority of firsts, it would be moot. However, they don't.

Ultimately, alternative vote comes down to what majority rule would be if it was a one on one competition. Sometimes we have to compromise on who the "ones" are, but thems the breaks.

If voting at the moment means I can't even vote for my number 1 choice, then doesn't that weaken your argument?

atlantis · 09/05/2010 12:14

" oversimplifying in a similar way, it's one of our guys getting a split vote versus your guy getting all of his. "

I like to oversimplify, it makes life easier.
So someone who gets a first and second can scrape in over someone who gets 'almost' the majority of firsts, that's not democracy, that's hedging your bets. It doesn't elect the person who is actually wanted by the majority, it allows someone else to bypass the popular vote.

No I don't live in Fulham.

MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 12:02

and following up the "your guy versus theirs"

At the moment, it's not that .... oversimplifying in a similar way, it's one of our guys getting a split vote versus your guy getting all of his.

MrJustAbout · 09/05/2010 12:00

Paraphrasing my earlier response - if Cameron had the policies that he's got now (FPP) there's no chance in hell that he'd get lib dem support in a PR system.

As for the first and second choices ... I think you need to reduce your medication a touch.

I voted for my second choice candidate, atlantis. I couldn't even vote for my first choice, thanks to the system in place.

Do you live in Fulham?

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