Which is more important now: political reform or the economy?

Yes that's the thing Quatt

It's not like they're going to ask the Chancellor to draw up terms for a PR referendum in his lunch hour

If the coming government can't handle two pieces of simultaneous business then we're more screwed than I thought

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/7696870/British-taxpayers-ordered-to-bail-out-euro. html is why we need to get the economy sorted - we just can't afford this.

After all, which countries in Europe share our political system? Malta. Er...there is another one...

[quattro, WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT? will go and bump your thread]

sophable, yes I think that most people would take the chance if they could. But a lot of people don't not only because they can't afford to but often because they are afraid to - it takes time to gain an understanding of what does and doesn't make the markets move and affect certain prices, and even then it's easy to get it wrong - I'm no way near there yet!

Ultimately it's gambling - it's no different to buying a lottery ticket or putting a bet on a horse, except that with betting on the financial markets there are pointers which make the outcomes slightly more predictable. But even then not always.

The most worrying event of the election campaign for me, was seeing a Labour dignitary (can't remember which) explaining why the UK couldn't go the way of Greece by reference to the fact that the UK's debts weren't due for repayment for 14 years ...

So that's okay then, right?

Bonkers to spend so uncontrollably. Essential to sort the economy out.

But the OP has set up a false dichotomy. It's not an either/or situation Get a good chancellor to work on balancing the books. Get a (different) good minister to sort out electoral reform. The two go hand in hand. Don't think the markets would quiver at electoral reform. In fact they might be settled at the prospect of seesaw politics coming to an end in favour of consensus politics.

Given the fact that we are now having to bail out Greece as per the stitch up cobbled together here in Brussels by Sarkozy and Merkel yesterday, we need to sort out the economy bloody quickly.

It's my fault for asking.

But it's an interesting point.

Gambling is gambling. Why should ordinary people roll over and not make money when they can? I'm kind of assuming TDiddles isn't in fact Goldman Sachs. Scale is important.

Lifestyle politics are a massive error of the modern (not-so) left. Oh i recycle therefore i'm better than X oh i recycle AND i give to amnesty, therefore i'm better than you...it can go on for ever...until you reach eco-primitivists who say we are all scum for using electricity.

"Great property is theft but property is our salvation."

Absolutely they are diddy. and frankly, the forces scaremongering the most simply want a conservative govt...using the markets as a stick to beat all concerned with.

I don't by buy that argument

My reference was in the context of market turmoil.

As a centre leftie, I am entitled to use the normal market and tax instruments like anyone else but I am not complaining about tax rates. There is a difference between being a nonDom and using straightforward tax allowances that we are all entitled to.

I think my original point was that those who are saying that we should cobble together a coalition for fear of market turbulence,; many of them are making money from this volatility so I don't by that argument.

i think that's a bit harsh lenin...tdiddy isn't talking about making money on the markets in the same breath as his nondom status!@! he wants to pay more tax don't you didd?

Didn't really want to start a thread saying.."I made a few grand playing the fx market" as I don't think it is particularly of value or relevance. I only made light reference to it above in passing.

There is often an element of speculation in our "investments"? Even house buying.

I started using internet brokers when I had exposure overseas assets that I wanted to manage/hedge the currency risk. Now I have less currency risk and I use it to speculate but also to invest. It is a very very efficient and immediate way to invest/speculate: the fees are minimal (just bid-offer spread), I have control and transparency and it is tax free !!

We cannot disconnect ourselves from the capitalist economy. I have no problem with those who accumulate money, I only ask for some measure of social justice and fairness for those with less access and less life chances. Most of us have had good fortune with life chances...when I vote, I think about those who are more vulnerable than me and the people that I work and socialise with.

yes and betting against the euro...that's gotta be helping confidence right?

gobsmacked that this thread has taken a turn towards market speculation!!!

i should have bloody bought barclays shares when the crash happened but didn't (couldn't shake that apartheid past in my head)...would have made lots of filthy lucre..

are we all hypocrites and given the incentives that young gun bankers do would we do the same? this is why i dont feel their evil but do feel that the system is pernicious.

or you can play

here

It's not actual buying/selling but betting the markets.

But you do have to be careful because when the markets are volatile it can be easy to predict the wrong way. The £ vs $ was like a yoyo on Friday - down 50 points then back up 30 then back down then back up... and then big jumps. So while there is money to be made you need to be sure you're not betting with money you can't afford to lose.

and it's tax-free, although I've never made enough for that to be relevant.

You want to be very careful. THis stuff is like buying a house. You only need about 10pc deposit. So I think you need about 1k to make 10k trade. I think that is the minimum. But if you only pout down 1k deposit and the market drops 10pc then you lose your 1k just like that!

So I tend to put down a higer deposit and set wider "loss limits".

Very efficient way as gaining exposure to oil, currency, shares, gold etc.