Depressed Lefty red eye - The morning after the night before

A new leader CAN'T be pulled out now. If there is to be a Labour/Lib Dem coalition, it HAS to be with Gordon Brown. It is him that has the right to form government, not the Labour Party. If he resigns now, the Queen will choose a new leader, and it will be Gammeron

I agree that the LibDems are not really close to Labour in many ways but neither are they close to the Tories in that they are progressive whereas the Tories are most definitely not.

That is why they are in the crucial position they are in. They are the perfect illustration of why we need PR - just look at how many votes they get compared to seats. When I say I think they could work with Labour I do really mean in the very short term and mainly for the purpose of electoral reform. It is just a shame that the timing (economically) is bad. I do agree that they would much prefer to do this without having to work with Brown but fail to see how a new leader can suddenly be pulled out now. The press would have a field day.

I've been talking about 'command and supply' - it's 'confidence and supply'. 'Command and supply' is probably something to do with ensuring a steady supply of baked beans and porn to battle troops.

rofl at the Oliver Letwin joke

I love Delingpole: he's so utterly nuts, he's terrifyingly fab. Like Mandelson's parasitical half-grown evil twin...

"LDs are just going through the paces saying that they are looking at Tory offer as they will get punished by the ectorate if they dont do that."

I agree with this. If they are going to try to present PR to the public as being 'fair and democratic' they have to behave in a fair and democratic way themselves i.e. by going to the party that won the most seats. If that party is not willing to compromise they can they go conscious clear to a 'rainbow coalition' which has the majority of votes and is not there for the purpose of governing as such but for rejigging what is obviously an unfair system.

Just re-read my post- obv "confidence", not "competence", sorry.

Beachcomber- I think what makes the situation a bit more complex is that many Lib Dem voters probably wouldn't consider themselves to be left-leaning. They have a broad spectrum of support, with NC himself closer to the Tories than Labour on many ideological points. Grossly oversimplified, they have in common with the Tories a greater focus on individuals and civil liberties (as opposed to `Labour collectivism), but have in common with Labour a greater focus on fairness and social justice than the Tories.

So neither side can really claim the LibDems as their own.

x-posts with Beachcomber - illustrative of her last point

No- I think Gordon will be a bargaining chip for LIbLab coalition. NC has to be part of something that looks new.

Point and laugh at the cross Tory

When I say I think Labour have to keep Gordon I mean in the short-term under a Lib/Lab/Others coalition.

I'm saying this really because of the economic situation, and I think a general agreement, that we need a strong government (although I do think this is grossly exaggerated by the Right - we are not as important as we think).

A short term coalition with a promise to provide economic stability and electorate reform, with Gordon stepping down as leader of Labour before an election is called, could be sold to the public I think. Then again perhaps I think this because I'm Scottish and live in a European country with PR.

I spoke to my French DH about this idea that the Libs and the Labs are the 'losing' parties and he thought it was very odd that that is how the UK public see things. However because of our current FPTP system this is how we see things. In France an election like this would be considered a win for 'The Left' and a loss for 'The Right'. To DH it is the Cons who have 'lost' and the idea of them trying to form a government is . However as has been pointed out on this thread that is not how the British public see it due to their being brainwashed used to our current system.

DH is also appalled at our biased press and says that is another gain we will make from PR - our press will stop blatantly backing one or other party.

I agree with ISNT's DH - Things Are Changing. Might not happen at this election but with any luck at the next one (which cannot be far away) British politics could change forever.

I bet the Tories are CRAPPING themselves and they are going to want to blame poor old Hameron (I'm almost feeling sorry for him).

Cos I am so vain will repeat one of my posting to another thread:

I don't think that LibLab coalition is necessarily best for Labour anyway!

Labour might be best sitting back and watching LDs get screwed and then sweeping up the antiTory vote next time with a new Leader..plus they would not have had to do the nasty public sector cuts. That is probably optimum for Labour.

Also, LDs need Labour's support to get PR referendum through to the public. So why would they do deal with Tories with Tories not syupporting PR and then alienating Labour support for PR? Doesn't seems to make any sense.

LDs are just going through the paces saying that they are looking at Tory offer as they will get punished by the lectorate if they dont do that.

Sorry but I really do think that Labour is sitting in the best position whatever happens. I like the LDs so this is just a dispassionate observation that I am making.

It's a slippery slope mmelindt

I am a labour voter and I am feeling quite chipper about all this. I wouldn't actually support a Lib/ Lab pact: I don't think it would ever shake off the reputation of having "stolen" the election, and coupled with the economic horror to come it could just about condemn the left to permanent opposition.

My feeling is that NC will not enter a coalition with the Tories. If there is any deal with them it will be a "supply and competence" arrangement that gives them just enough support to vote through key decisions. The other possible outcome IMHO is that the Tories will have to muddle thruogh with a minority gvmt.

Reasons to be cheerful in either case:

• Whatever happens, the Tories do not have enough power to vote for their more right-wing policies. Anything they do from now on will be checked, either by a coalition partner or by the prospect of a defeat vote.

• Nick Clegg and the Lib team could not abandon their principles for a shot at power, even if they were so inclined (and I don't think they are). They are currently taking views from all party members at local level to feed in to the executive committee meeting tonight. NC will not be able to act without the endorsement of this committee. And I don't think they will go for any deal that does not include a firm commitment on PR.

-The tough and unpopular decisions will bear the stamp of Cameron and Osborne. Labour can keep its hands clean and regroup.

Most of all I am cheerful because immediately before the election, I had begun to think that the entire country had lurched to the right. I despaired at the con of the Big Society and the influence of the Murdoch media. The election has shown that the Tories have not made much headway beyond their core vote, despite the telegenic hamshine. The country now has a progressive majority. And NC has the leverage he needs to ensure that future elections will reflect that fact.

ahh right pwonk....

I am fuzzy on the rules, making it up as I go along

Imnottelling
Yes, they start with PR, then they will drink wine and eat cheese and before long you are naked in the sauna and the car keys are in a bowl in the hall.

at skynews. It's crap isn't it. We also get Foxnews, which is even worse.
I'm reading the guardian online at the moment and feel better, somehow.

PR sounds a bit like the sort of thing those pesky european types might get up to

ROFL at "Allow immigrants to stay, but hunt them for sport"

Hysterical

lol @ policy's Sky description

Pfft - I think they only have to agree not to gang up if they agree command and supply? And even that only applies to not voting down core Cons bills, rather than promising not to generate their own legislation?

Franca
Sky News is so busy being important. All this BREAKING NEWS BREAKING NEWS. They could do with a foot massage and a cup of tea.

'Could Labour and Lib Dems push through Electoral Reform against the wishes of a Tory minority government?' - yes, technically they could. Together (and with certain support on this issue from Green, Plaid, SNP and SDLP) they'd have more votes than Tory and Ulster Unionists.

France - I turned Sky on just now (don't normally watch it - Murdoch ) and I thought something HUGE had happened. After a while it became apparent that they just make an ENORMOUS FUSS ALL THE TIME. And Kay Burley is a very odd colour.

Justa - I remember the first postnatal period, esp after DS1 - was like torrential lochia all over again.

I linked to this blog in my blog but it is worth posting here

Françoise Boucek reviews Cameron?s arguments against PR

I don't think a con-lib coalition will last even remotely a year, let alone a full term.

One word: Europe...

Ah, ok. Thanks Pfft.