Victory to the Greek people

ElenorRigby: Yes, indeed. There does at least seem to be some realisation here that some austerity measures will be needed - none of the main parties are denying that, just disagreeing about when and what to cut.

Nice to be able to sit in an investment bank with your spreadsheets and cheer the revolution whilst people are torched to death in riots. Contradictory to say the least, or are you trying to kill the system from within or something?

The glee that you welcome the revolution is slightly sickening, Coolfonz.

These are real people, not chess figures on a board.

People who are sitting frightened in offices, banks and homes hoping that the anarchists will not torch their buildings and that they and their families will survive unscathed.

It is easy to get caught up in the politics and the economic equations and loose track of the normal Greeks whose lives will never be the same.

Im afraid that anti greek feeling seems to be slowly gathering momentum in germany, though it is still at the level of jokes at the moment, but claims like "germans owe us money as reparation for the 2nd world war" are not going to make the situation any easier.
Neither are these riots and refusal to accept the inevitable.

bizarre thread title. DO you think th eGreeks are celebrating their great victory OP

GrimmaTheNome: 05-May-10 14:04:00
"I'm afraid the Greek people need to come to their senses and realise they have been living beyond their means."

I'm afraid the British people need to come to their senses and realise they have been living beyond their means.

BBC: Total National Debt Per Household = £90,000
Radio 4, PM,Thursday, 29 April

Summary:
Cuts per household per year:

£1,350 from the Lib Dems
£1,700 from Labour
£2,000 from the Conservatives

Deficit = Annual borrowing
Debt = Stock of all the money that the government owes, on-balance-sheet.

Official National Debt = on-balance-sheet
Off-balance-sheet "debts" (obligations) : PFI + Public Sector Pensions.

National numbers:
776 bn - National Debt (official, "on-balance-sheet" debt)
almost 20% more - PFI (off-balance-sheet)
770 bn - Public Sector Pensions (off-balance-sheet)

Per household:
£30,000 - National Debt
£5,000 - PFI
a few hundred pounds either way - Banks Bailout
£30,000 - Public Sector Pensions
£65,000 - Total Now

£25,000 - Borrowing in the next 4 years
£90,000 - GRAND TOTAL

Scary scary times.
RIP those that lost their lives today in Greece.

Greek default already decided/

Europe have been too slow responding to this crisis (that's coalition governments for you ). If only they'd acted a few months ago, here is a thread I started way back in February February The EU have been so constipated that the problem has grown, and is still growing. And it's contagious.

Greece is riddled with corruption. Many poor people have been happily conspiring in the corruption, (eg getting paid for jobs that they don't even bother to do). You don't have to be well-paid to be corrupt.

The main beneficiaries are the Greek oligarchs who made huge amounts of money from public sector contracts. They have now moved their assets overseas. If Greece defaults it will be bank shareholders and bondholders (not necessarily in Greece) who'll take the hit - many of them pensioners and perhaps no more wealthy than many of the Greeks who are complaining about the austerity package. The Greek oiigarchs will get through this unscathed as they are probably now hedged in gold.

It's Eurosceptic to suggest Greece should leave the Euro. But if they don't like the austerity package (and I can see why they don') I don't see how they will be able to avoid permanent deflation and unemployment without leaving the Euro.

Interesting blog post by good old Richard Murphy. Scroll down for the text of a letter from the European TUC proposing policy measures that would benefit Greece while helping to shore up the Euro.

Makes sense to me CF is right - structural adjustment has long been used as a tool of the right in developing countries, and now it's creeping westwards.

Sorry Coolfonz your post is not clear at all. Please come back later and explain.

People in the UK do pay tax - see our National Statistics if you want to

Coolfonz banks rarely if ever lend their own money to sovereigns nowadays -- it's all passed through to bond investors like er, pension funds. So the losers would be us. Which of course you would know, being an investment banker and all .

So none of us really have the appetite for a full blown revolution but would be more than prepared to see a couple of Goldman Sach's top brass up against the wall.

Seems fair enough to me.

Coolfonz - the anarchist set fire to the bank today that killed three workers. There have been reports that one was a pregnant lady

Good point about Goldman Sachs and the Greek cross-currency swap. GS devised 'a special swap with fictional exchange rates' (Der Spiegel).

I agree Cool. Up the revolution (as long as it isn't the women making the spannakopitta).