Voting Reform No Longer Precondition for Lib Dem/Tory Pact?

snowlady - I saw that piece too and wondered why the Lib Dems and Conservaties aren't trumpeting that. GB is lying through his teeth and being allowed to get away with it.

oh well, I chose the wrong example then

I think the Conservatives could be convinced to join the Euro. The Euro-sceptics may be convinced if the speculators were to attack the pound, as Soros did when we were in the ERM and when Lamont had to beg Germany for help, which they declined, which meant he had to put interest rates up to 15%. We then left the ERM. But if the markets now lost faith in sterling, we would again be begging for help from the Euro-bloc. The question is would they be able to help us, when Germany has its plate full with Greece and possibly more countries.

Highlander - do you think the Tories would agree to PR?

Vesela - agree with your point about the media.

btw when I said euro entrance, I was just taking that as a hypothetical example of something you'd never be able to convince the Conservative MPs/members to go along with, if for some reason Cameron decided it was the way to go!

I'm a lifelong LibDem voter who completely distrusts Nick Clegg. Getting into tbed with the Tories is the stuff of nightmares for me.

I'll probably vote Labour this Thurs, for my neighbour.

snowlady - I think he's trying...! Not easy when you're under attack from all sides by the media/Tory/Labour establishment, though.

No leader could ever convince the Lib Dems to "go along" without proportional representation! It couldn't happen. The party is run on extremely democratic lines, it's nothing like Labour or the Conservatives.

Could the Conservatives (although run on less democratic lines) ever be convinced to go along with euro entrance, do you think?

Claig, I'd also like to see Huhne playing a bigger role in the campaign. He does have a smallish majority to defend, though - could be that.

''Thanks, MrsCosmopolite! - you linked to Sky again, though... ''

Take 2

the real article from the independent

I think Nick Clegg needs to stand by his principles over voting reform. He needs to make clear he will do this otherwise he will lose votes and not be in a bargaining position anyway.

It was interesting to see the tax credits clip at the end of the BBC news last night. Gordon brown has gone on and on saying don't vote lib dem or tory or you'll lose your tax credits. Under the lib dems middle to higher earners will lose their tax credits but gain more from the personal tax exemption threshhold being raised to £10,000. You need to get this message to the voters Nick otherwise people might believe gordons message that they are better off under labour.

Focus on putting lib dem policies across and don't get drawn in to doing deals with the other parties.

deficit

yes, so he will be ousted as leader. But the next leader will see the urgency of solving our defecit problems and eventually convince the party to go along. You know more about the Liberals than me. I remember watching the Politics Show when the BBC surprised Huhne with the publicity that his supporters had printed, which disparaged Clegg. It caught Huhne out and Clegg and the BBC watched Huhne squirm. After that, Huhne was on the back foot and Clegg won the leadership. Huhne had substance and experience in business. He used to be very effective. It is a shame that he isn't playing a bigger role.

Thanks, MrsCosmopolite! - you linked to Sky again, though...

This is from the above link,

"Meanwhile the Guardian reports senior Conservatives want to challenge the rules which could allow Mr Brown to remain prime minister for up to a week after a defeat on Thursday, to try and form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats."

That sounds like a bit of a dirty trick.

I wonder if the Guardian will continue their new and shiny support of Clegg which seemed based mostly on his unwavering commitment to PR.

Claig - he can't sell his supporters down the river, or they'd sell him down the river!

What a load of rubbish. In context he was talking about electoral reform being a precondition for restoring public trust in the political system, not, as the idiot who wrote this article is trying to make out - as a precondition for forming a coalition with either Labour or Tory.

You can read the full quote in this article from the independent

FioFio, they wouldn't be supporting the Conservatives automatically. They'd be supporting whichever party had a mandate, and whichever party agreed to Lib Dem PR and other demands. Or - as I said above - it'll be "sort it out yourselves, Labour and the Tories."

I never trusted Clegg. I don't think he will deliver on PR. I think he will sell his supporters down the river. I personally thought Huhne was much better. I think many Liberals will be disappointed, the Tories won't accept PR, and Clegg will make excuses to us and tell us that we have to wait. We'll have to wait for hell to freeze over before they give us PR.

It's actually fairly possible that the Lib Dems will tell Labour and the Conservatives to make their own arrangements with each other if nothing better works out!

The LDs would then be the opposition and would hold on for another election in which they could expect to do even better. Not for nothing did the Lib Dems go into the election campaign with a campaign about the Labservatives... It's a popular position within the party.

I don't see the MPs agreeing to anything vague, though, either. They'd certainly not let Labour get away with the sort of fudging on PR that it did during the last parliament.

MintHumbug, the Lib Dems are more than their backbenchers, though. The members have ultimate control. The party works differently from Labour and the Conservatives in this way.

(Huhne is of course a nice guy, intelligent and v. good spokesman, but he wouldn't have been anything like as good a leader as Clegg).

Alibaba - I'm very glad Huhne isn't leader - I voted for Clegg.

Clegg isn't saying something different here, though. As I understand it, he's talking about the timing of the commitment. But I'll have to read more to see if my understanding of that is right.