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Original poster

All those who keep saying 'but he sold our gold' I'm interested in why it bothers you so much, ta muchly.

113 replies

Beachcomber · 04/05/2010 08:10

Thanks to anyone who wants to explain a bit to me about this because I don't really get the point you're making.

I understand that GB sold about half of the UK's gold reserves at a time when the price was quite low. It is easy to say now, with hindsight, that it wasn't a good time to sell (although that would only take into account price and not the reason behind the sale). However the money was invested in currency, right? So it isn't like it isn't there anymore, it is just in a different form (euros, dollars and yen).

Also AFAIK the point of selling some gold was to make a comitted move to an economic policy which would inhibit fluctations in inflation. GB said he was committed to stable inflation (appararantly this is what he was referring to with the 'boom and bust' statement).

So to those who seem upset about this move can you tell me why cos I don't get you. (Please try to present arguments and facts and refrain from personal attacks on the PM about being 'a liar' and 'incompetant'.)

Here is a link to something which explains how I see the gold issue.

OP posts:
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megcleary · 05/05/2010 20:01

Have enjoyed the tussle of learning, have read Flo's info and and wondering if the recommendations at the end are in political double speak along the lines of the report saying next time do this and the treasury saying yes yes

Translates to

report:don't do that again
treasury: we'll see....

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 19:43

I can see how you thought what you did, again sorry for any misunderstanding .

OP posts:
megcleary · 05/05/2010 19:07

More ideas above my station!

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 18:16

OK megcleary I understand your comments a bit better now. I didn't start this thread because of the webchat. I started it because of a conversation I had with my mum in fact.

There are plenty of criticisms that could be made of GB, I agree with you. I wanted to stick to one issue on this thread only so that we wouldn't get lost by having too many things going on at once.

I absolutely do not have an agenda to support, I'm just one of those people who can be a bit tenacious and insistent sometimes! I have always been a swing voter (although never Conservative) but I just have a soft spot for Gordon Brown and am trying to understand why he is so unpopular. Maybe I like him because I am Scottish!

I'm sure you are not too dim to understand any of this, I haven't had a chance to look properly at Flo's links and would be interested in what you have made of them.

Sorry if I upset you with this thread and you thought that it was about your question on the webchat - it really wasn't.

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megcleary · 05/05/2010 14:38

and that is entirely your choice I think I will step away from this as I appear to dim to understand it.

Flo's links have helped but am not sure if my interpretation is correct.

megcleary · 05/05/2010 14:36

A bit personally as I was the one that started it on the webchat, as I have explained before I have read up on it but still don't understand it.

I have learned a lot from this thread not enough to get my dim brain around it.

There are many reasons to mistrust GB, 10p tax, war, lying about the defence budget to the Chilcott enquiry, but this issue has been shadows for years.

you appear to have an agenda to support

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 14:13

Megcleary I hope you aren't taking this personally in any way. I understand that you asked GB about the gold on the webchat is that right? If so then good for you, I have plenty of questions about it too, hence this thread.

I don't have time to look at them properly today but I'm hoping that florence's links will help me understand better.

I just take issue with people who list the gold as a reason why they wouldn't vote for GB but when questioned it turns out they know almost nothing about it. Seems like a risky way of going about making important decisions to me.

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Kathyjelly · 05/05/2010 13:47

I don't mind him selling it, I'd just rather he held onto it until it was worth more.

megcleary · 05/05/2010 13:45

Well I am one of these people I don't read the Telegraph, I have read articles in many areas on it over the years NONE have explained it fully.

Again defending GB without facts is something I am not prepared to do.

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 13:37

Megcleary I don't have a problem with people asking about this issue.

I have a problem with people who know nowt about it pretending that they do in order to repeat stuff they have read in the Torygraph.

MmeLindt would you be able to pass this on to Mrs Brown somehow?

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megcleary · 05/05/2010 13:23

I think 10 years later it has never been explained in a way I a bog standard person could understand.

You admitted earlier Beachcomber there are questions surrounding the sale and I just saw GB on Monday as a chance to ask.

ooojimaflip · 05/05/2010 12:23

MmeLindt - go for it ;)

MmeLindt · 05/05/2010 11:53

Maybe we should send SB this thread (I follow her on Twitter) and ask her to ask Gordon.

We are ready to believe, we want to believe that it was a Good Idea.

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 11:43

Ah but MmeLindt you just used more than one sentence to talk about a complex issue there and you asked questions.

Most people just want sound-bites and snappy stuff they can trot out.

When I started this thread I honestly thought that I would have loads of Mr Brown's critics who would come and explain why they personally saw the gold sale as something to be holding against GB ten years later.

I hope history will be kinder to this man than the people he has done so much for are being.

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Kewcumber · 05/05/2010 11:40

ooja - yes they do and they have even managed tofind a way to "brand" their own diamonds (they also have a few mines) - Imean brand themphysically. Presumably to convince people that De Beers diamonds are somehow more diamondy than your average runof the milldiamond. Or you could just use the 4 C's...

megcleary · 05/05/2010 09:44

GB on five live now shall we copy and paste the thread and see what he says????

MmeLindt · 05/05/2010 09:24

I agree Beachcomber, with your comments about GB. He was PM several years too late, and that is slimy Tony's fault.

I asked DH last night and he said that most countries sold gold at the same time. He is German and says there has been no controversy there about the selling of gold.

What it boils down to is this:

How much gold was sold, to which price.

Which investments were made with the money made?

How have those investments panned out (taking into account that the £ gained against the dollar since the gold was sold)

What is the net difference?

Surely someone has worked this out before now?

Original poster
Beachcomber · 05/05/2010 08:11

As florence points out, other countries sold gold at the same time. I'm pretty sure both the Swiss and the Belgians sold at this time. Thanks for the link, am off to read now.

I would be interested to have the numbers explained to me. For example when people say he lost us X billion are they taking into account the return on the currency reserves investment?

Also what was the exchange rate at the time he bought/sold and what would it have been if he had done it when gold was at a higher price?

I disagree with you TDiddy when you say that GB was not born to be PM. I just think he is PM at a time that is not on his side; the press has decided they want a change, Labour has been in power for so long that the population want a change, a global recession happened, the country needed a lot of money spent on it to sort out the NHS etc.

I think what most goes against Mr Brown is that he is an old school politician. He has moral conviction in a day and age when a fake tan and a spin doctor will serve one's personal ambition much much better.

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ooojimaflip · 05/05/2010 08:04

DeBeers only control natural diamonds which are another thing we only agree are valuable because they are pretty and we always have agreed they were pretty. Synthetic diamonds are as good or better for useful applications.

Kewcumber · 05/05/2010 00:16

Netwrokguy "Same is true for diamonds, but largely because the few areas where they are mined act together to limit supply and keep the price high artifically." I don't want to be pedantic (what a lie! ) but technically its one company which does this - The DeBeers Trading Company does this by "marketing" damonds of the majority of the worlds producers, they control supply to the market and everyone they buy fom has to agree to supply what they say (more or less) whch keeps the price of diamonds stable. Their argument is that prior to doing this diamond prices fluctuated wildly depending on the supply of individual pipes and that no-one wants a diamond to fluctuate on price so they are doing the world a favour... MInd you for various reasons they only now control about 40% by value of rough diamond trade.

As a result they are banned from the USA as they contravene the US antitrust laws., though this may have been lifted following the recent court case .

OK as you were...

ooojimaflip · 05/05/2010 00:13

Aye, but we are over spending 80-160 bn a YEAR. 60 bn very welcome but doesn't fix problem

TDiddy · 05/05/2010 00:01

remind me how much the hole is? I think the taxpayer makes 1BN for every 1p rise in RBS shareprice. Share price could double in a couple of years and yield another 60BN and that excludes Lloyds.

Acutally bank recovery will benefit the taxpayer enormously!! Priobably the best way to get us out of the hole! Politically sensitive to try explaining this to voters though

ooojimaflip · 04/05/2010 23:51

Aye we are going to do well out of the banks. Probably not well enough to get us out of our current hole though

TDiddy · 04/05/2010 23:46

ooojimaflip agreed + the tens of Bn that the tax payer will make when we sell the banks, to repeat myself

ooojimaflip · 04/05/2010 23:36

I hadn't realised we were only talking about £7 billion. Really against a budget deficit of £162.4 billion we really need to just get the fuck over it.