Tax Credits = benefit-dependent society?

if you only pay half the rent/bills, and share a home with another adult who helps around the house and with the children, then no, you are not "fiercely independent" are you? because you rely on another wage, and another person.

My degree is in health and social care. True, to get into that field, I could work first as a cleaner in a care facility, then as an HCA, but if I wanted to progress, I would need to train as a nurse (degree) or a midwife (degree) or if I wanted to be a health visitor I would need a degree in nursing or midwifery plus post grad qualifications.

To be a social worker you need a degree, to be a psychologist you need a degree, to be a teacher, you need a degree.........the list goes on!

No, I can't afford to work part time and complete a degree without financial support from the government, but if I didn't get that support, I would remain on income support for the rest of my life. Or get a low paid full time job, which doesn't require me to have a brain and use it in which case, I would still need tax credits to top up my income.

So your point is invalid tbh. I am incredibly lucky that I am able to get this financial help to give me the tools I need to get a full time job at the end of it. Why is that so difficult for you to understand?

Riven - no-one is talking about people in the situation that you and your family are in. No-one.

Riven, I beleive you and your DH care for a child with a disability. I have said several times (although I think its flippin obvious) that this is a completely different situation.

Seeing as this is the Tax Credits thread, here's a link to the BBC piece clarifying the proposed changes by Lib Dems and Tories. Puts the changes in context with the other changes they are proposing to the tax system.

here

"oh and foureleven, on your profile, you claim to be "fiercely independent and self-sufficient"

I take no money from him, I make him live in a house far smaller than we could do because I insist on paying half of the rent/ bills etc. So thanks but I am independant, fiercly so.

I am interested to know what degree you are doing that is going to get you a job?
Just to point out that I don?t think you are a better person if you earn more money, but I do think you are a better person if you go to work and earn money for your family for as many hours as you can rather than take tax credits. Bottom line ? staying at home with kids and an education past 18 IS a luxury. If you can?t afford to do it, you shouldn?t do it.

haha I have rightmove bookmarked for property porn!

Well, if I stay on full benefits, I'm a lazy scrounger, if I get a part time job, I'm still lazy, and clearly not working hard enough! So yes you're right oojamaflip and imsonottelling - nothing I do is the right thing. Oh, unless it's working full time of course.

I didn't realise working my ass off to get a degree in my spare time was a luxury though

yea that's about right wubbly - childcare cost vary depending on where you live and what type of provider you use.

There are no full time jobs in this area with an annual salary of over £25k, and even they are specialist jobs that require specific qualifications and experience.

So yes even if I worked full time, I would still be reliant on tax credits to help with childcare.

I don;t want to get embroiled in this though, oojamaflip is right, as mothers whatever we do is going to be wrong.

full time childcare about £1000-£1200 a month round here.

I don't think it's on to call a fellow mother lazy. Working is a doss compared to looking after chidren IMO. Cordonbleugh sounds like she has a lot on her plate.

I don't pay childcare, so can't be sure of the costs, but I understand it ranges from around £120-£300 per week for each child - is that right?

On that basis, even working full time, with a salary of say £40k (ha!) a single parent with 2 children is still going to have to rely on tax credits to pay the bills.

and if you don't think you're better than me, then why are you putting me down for only working part time?

I don't work full time, I work 20 hours a week.
A degree will get me a job because, in case you didn't realise, it results in a qualification - of which most jobs require

Sure, I could go and work in tesco without a degree, but I don't want t, I want a job and career that I love and enjoy doing.

You obviously work in a field that does not require a degree.

re DD's development - fair enough if your daughter is too, but at least I can claim the credit for it, not her childminder.

thanks wubbly - I do work hard but I love it because I get the best of both worlds. I've never been happier actually!

Foureleven seems to have missed the part where I've said that part time work is a short term thing for me, and that the sole reason that I'm doing a degree is so that I can get a full time job!

oh and foureleven, on your profile, you claim to be "fiercely independent and self-sufficient" I really don't see how that can be when you have a partner bringing in money, providing emotional, physical and practical support. Any yes, it may be that now you have other people to consider, but you also have another person to consider you I don't.

A degree will not get you a job. However, if I did a degree I could command a higher salary.

I would LOVE to do this but until I can afford to fund the time it would take to do a degree myself, i do not see that it is my right to do so. Its a luxury that i cant afford.

If working full time provides enough financially for your family then why are you relying on tax credits..? That makes no sense.

I am sorry to tell you this, but it is not because you spent time with your dd that she is ahead... my daughter is too. I'm sure you did a great job though and I dont think im better than you.

cordonbleugh, I take my hat off to you. I really don't think I could do it.

I'm a SAHM with one child and a DH who works. I'm knackered most days. There's no doubting you work bloody hard.

I've a friend who works full time but with fantastic family support. Her parents picke up the kids in the morning, give them breakfast, take them to school, pick them up from school, give them dinner and take them home again after she gets home, around 6.30ish. She couldn't work without their support, but rarely gets to spend time with her children, as they're off to see their Dad at the weekend.

I think whichever way you choose to do it, it's hard.

fourelevene/cordonbleugh - you are both already in the wrong for being mothers, so you can never be good enough, and nono one CARES how hard anyone works. It certainly has nothing to do with the salary you earn.

are you for real?! How is that lazy?! Studying for a degree part time with OU on top of everything else is bloody hard work! And I don't even have time to sit down to watch eastenders!

And working part time IS providing financially for the family, we don't do it for free!!

Why is doing a degree a bad thing? It will enable me to get a full time job ffs

And I do housework because I'd rather not live in a shithole.

And It's because I've spent so much time with my DD that she is way ahead of her peers in terms of intelligence and development.

You chose to full time, that what you wanted to do with your life. That doesn't make you better than me!

DevonParent, who are these people who don't work 'seriously' and what does that mean?

There was a lot of talk/presumption made/stated towards the start of this thread that people seemed to think that the purpose of Tax Credits was to help people get back into work! Nothing of the sort is true, Tax Credits are really the inverse of a Tax Relief/Reduction, but supposed to be targetted at low income/low-earners/specific groups, rather than Tax Reductions, which benefit all tax payers to greater or lesser degrees.

Thus quite simply, rather than Government choosing to introduce Tax Reductions as a means of channelling more funds to 'needy' persons/families, Labour chose to introduce Tax Credits, with a whole set of rules of their own (as opposed to general taxation, tax bands and tax rates). It's a bit like the VAT philosphy, whereby people are not Taxed at source, but on what they buy/spend their money on...in an analogous way.

If I'm correct, 'needy' persons/families appear to have been those earning upwards to £50k (or thereabouts), but no more.

Tax credits have thus nothing to do with getting back into work, but more so supposedly help those with very limited incomes to quite literally survive in their daily lives. Whislt in theory it may have been a good idea, one spin off it has created is a whole class of people who make little real attempt to work seriously (or work as much as they could do), but sit back and expect (...and get) Tax Credits to keep them in their lives of dependency !!!!

Also, I wasnt about to stand back and allow my male peers take all the payrises and clients from under me! But thats another thread!

"But surely you can see that a single parent singlehandedly raising a child, running a house, working 16+ hours a week and studying for a degree once the kids are in bed is NOT lazy by any stretch of the imagination?!"

I personally would have felt lazy, yes. But Im the kind of person who stops to watch eastenders, then gets back up again.

I had an overwhelming need as soon as I became a single mother to get out there and earn money to bring home. To me, providing financially for my family is my goal. Its what gets me out of bed. Not doing a degree, or doing housework, or playing with my children (more than at the weekend of course, please dont think I dont think its important to play with children!)

Oh, I am MORE angry at people who dont work at all yes!!!

The thing I don't get about all this bashing part timers is that a woman's career covers something like 40 years. The child rearing years take up just a small portion of that.

If a mother (or father) wants to be there for the children during those years and not take on the commitment of full time work, then there are many advantages to working part time.

For women, a great excuse for the lack of opportunities and progression has always been the poor provision of childcare. Fair enough, if you're earning a small fortune, working full time is an option, as you're far more likely to be able to afford full time childcare. The same for parents with great family support.

For the vast majority of workers earning minimum or even average wage, the tax credits go someway to helping parents to work and pay for childcare.

I personally think that has many benefits for women and society as a whole. For parents, it means they can take the pressure off a little during those early years whilst keeping their hand in the workplace. Or it enables them to improve their education for better employment prospects in the future, when their children are older.

For single parents that benefit is surely enormous. The alternative for most single parents would be to stay on benefits completely and not work at all, as childcare costs would be prohibitive.

The system may well need tinkering with, I wouldn't argue that it's perfect, but the principle behind it is spot on.

ImSoNotTelling - May accent is a variable thing depending on whom I am talking too ;) My grandmother had the most magnificent cut glass accent. I tend to generic middle class norf london. Unless I'm talking to a minicab driver or a judge.