I can't tell you how much I hope the Conservatives win the election.

Yeah, it was their undoing too, attaching themselves to an ideology, I think. That's why they've been in opposition for so long etc

Yes that is a very lucid summary I think, 100x

'American tradition of charity replaces or is an excuse for a lack of the British welfare state isn't it expat?'

Yes, in large part, it is.

My father and his brother-in-law, his sister's husband, are a big part of it.

They devote a large part of their time in retirement, and money, to it.

They are Knights of Columbus, a Catholic brotherhood.

Last weekend, they held a BBQ with the Masons in their city.

It was the culmination of 6 months of exhausting work among many, both working and retired, to raise money for the American equivalent of Help for Heroes, to provide things like state-of-the-art prosthetics, counselling, home buying and modifications, funds for those injured in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Donors looking for tax write-offs and publicity, pitching in, etc.

To the tune of close to $900K.

I don't know that you'd see that here, in a day.

"And New Labour's winning formula in 1997 was to take the free market aspect and add a belief in the state for the vulnerable."

Agree and (flame if you want) but that is what I voted for in 1997!

DC is IMO trying to get back to this (I'm not totally convinced he is there yet though btw).

American tradition of charity replaces or is an excuse for a lack of the British welfare state isn't it expat?

Actually - and this is a by the by - the idea that there is such a thing as a Tory philosophy is quite interesting to me.

I'm not sure they did have one - historically - I think of them as a party of the landed gentry and the toffs, deeply pragmatic and proudly without ideology.

Thatcher introduce a 'Tory philosophy' didn't she, which was basically free marketeering - v. much about getting off your backside, fighting your corner, the indvidual is all, the best survive, the less good, well, they drop etc etc

And New Labour's winning formula in 1997 was to take the free market aspect and add a belief in the state for the vulnerable.

Does anyone else think that's true?

'Tory philosophy makes the assumption that working hard and doing your best is good for society as a whole, and should be rewarded - but it also is about helping and supporting the most vunerable.'

Yet so many of their supporters automatically, and cluelessly, assume that poor = feckless who don't work and are on benefits.

He doesn't have a CLUE what 'big society' is because if he had he'd know sharpish that 'big society' often means big religion, and he's not got that cultural tradition here.

There are no big, daily, morning and evening soup kitchens or food banks here. No big funds where Christians pool in to pay their medical bills if they haven't go insurance.

No huge scholarships for higher education based on faith.

Clueless. Utterly clueless.

Fair enough, you privatise away.

You've not got the low VAT that others who've done the same, or never had a socialist tradition of provision, had. The low cost of the consumer goods that keep them in work.

Not the countless other anti-discrimination legislation in place to support that.

Putting the cart before the horse is a common mistake.

But not one you'd expect from someone with such a sterling education.

All about helping and supporting the most vulnerable? That'll be all those vulnerable souls having to pay tax on their substantial inheritances I presume?

"Conservative philosphy is built on the laughable premise that life is fair."

What makes you think that? That is not what I read and hear. Tory philosophy makes the assumption that working hard and doing your best is good for society as a whole, and should be rewarded - but it also is about helping and supporting the most vunerable.

Glad we agree on something at last Ski.

Life isn't fair. That's my point. It is not about how it affects us involved in the discussion.

Conservative philosphy is built on the laughable premise that life is fair.

Similar sort of childhood to mine then Ski (real,aprents but Dad was a drunk and both aprents a bit handy with their fists- though credit to them the drinking stopped eyars ago and they turned it aorund)

Good luck to you; an abusive childhood is a real handicap but doesn't have to ruin everything. My life isn't perfect- I didn;t ask for two of my chidlren to be disabled after all- but it's aa damn sight better than I thought it would be and I earned that all- right down to the decent DH and determination to do better for mine. We've ahd our sahre of bad luck but what I hope teh boys are seeing is that we haven't once given up or blamed anyone else and we are trying our hardest to dig ur way out. that's not a bad lesson to learn.

antoinette I'm afraid your points just don't make logical sense. By the same token I expect you to start complaining any moment now because you don't buy your clothes in Milan and you've not got a Kensington postcode. Life isn't fair - I know in my heart that my real birth mother looked like Grace Kelly and I should've been surrounded by ponies and boys who drove Mercedes...

Sancti Yes, it will be a professional course. I fucked up school terribly horribly due to an abusive home life. But that didn't take away my brains - it didn't take away my ability to read and learn. So in that respect, life isn't fair - it's not fair (in some people's eyes) I got the brains to figure it all out in the end.

SanctiMoany sums it up perfectly.

(oh before anyone comes on and posts you dont deserve a degree with your typing like usual I have eyesight probs and glasses being amde atm)

And it is very annoying to have statements like "you're going to whinge about a lack of opportunity" and "Boo fucking hoo" into a political discussion. But I suspect you know that.

It's not true thate veryone ahd the same opportunities; my school wrote me off becuase I had a terrible homelife and I didn't even relaise you could get Uni funding until I was working; luckily I had the chance to go backl and prove I was able (hard to explain how big a deal that was psychologically) and hope tat ic an use my degree to do good.

The school my kids go to however pretty much assumes university as part of the normal schooling experience- now, ds3 won't go (Autsim) and I am nto certain the otehrs are Uni material (more apprenticehip which is fine by me) but they have the equal chance.

It may be simply becuase my home county ahs no University of course, whereas we live under a mile from one now.

Equality also comes from parental attitude- I seriosuly doubt some of the alcohol dependent parents I ahve worked with in the apst inspire their children to achieve in any real way, and education is a big aprt of that.

Ski is it a professional course you're doing then? Good luck with it.

Skihorse - I'm not asking for handout. I didn't say that I thoght people shpould be paid £40,000 pa to do a PhD. I am aware that there is a degree of choice here. I chose not to be in severe debt and to have a decent family life. Plenty of able people don't even get to make a choice at that level.

Please try to understand that this is not about me, or you. I was simply illustrating that the Conservative idea of everyone having the same opportunities, of making their own luck is a fallacy. Maybe I could have chosen a better example, but I hoped that this was easier to relate to than the real problem in our society. That is soul-destroying, grinding poverty.

Good luck with your studies and bean-eating.

It was not a personal attack - I'm just wondering why you need/require a handout else you're going to whinge about lack of opportunity - whilst I'm going to (and have already said!) go along to the bank cap-in-hand and live on baked beans and get on with it?

That was a non-sarky thanks to you, btw, Sansu

Thanks Sansu.

By the time we can affors for me to do a PhD I think I'll have lost the will. But it's a choice to an extent - and I'm glad that I am anywhere near having one. Some kids can't even afford to stay at school. Never mind university or college.

Thanks for the personal attacks Ski.

I was just illustrating, in response to Eve, that not everyone has the same opportunity. As I made clear, I am well aware that I am in a fortunate situation. I did not argue that all higher education should be free, I just showed that ability is not the only thing that dictates achievement. I know that plenty of people live on £10,000 a year (and much less) like the scholarship I have been offered. Presumably someone is funding your living expenses during your planned venture into education?

Maybe you didn't understand what I was saying. There is a lack of social equality and mobility across society. It is not just about who political parties employ. Mentioing Old Etonians and my situation (and genuinely deprived peoples' situations) was an attempt not to have to drone on (like this).

Oh and I fucking hate Boden.

I agree with antoinettechigur again.

I want to live in a MERITOCRACY, where there is an equal opportunity for all children to succeed, and those in power are there because they are best able, not there by birth-right or who they know.

Good-luck antoinettechigur. Don't completely give up hope: we need people like you. Keep on at it when you can, and I hope you get your PhD, and get to the top in your field.

I also like your selflessness

I know plenty of "academically able" people who were able to get funds for their PhDs. Granted - they weren't using it to fund a Boden-lifestyle - perhaps that is your problem?

Oh if only the Labour party only recruited GCSE failure students from bad comps. If only it were true that only trustafarians held PhDs.

My uncle went to Kings and did a PhD - I don't remember holidaying at my grandparents chateau or summers in Monte Carlo but it must've been.

FFS, I'm currently planning on full-time, non-funded education - I'm just going to have to suck up that bank loan/career development loan and thank my lucky stars that one day I'll be able to pay it off.

Boo fucking hoo - it should be for free should it? I'll thcweam and thcweam until I'm thick?