All immigrants are equal but some are more equal than others

I am white and emigrated from Australia. I was concerned over the maximum amount of time the Home Office said they might need to hold my passport whilst they processed my citizenship application, as I needed to travel for work.

The nice lady at the town hall tapped on the Australian coat of arms on the passport, winked and said, "Oh you won't have to wait more than a few days, I promise".

Some immigrants are more equal than others.

NINJA thanks for your reply, I have heard it said about the English and I'm glad your one of the people who would not use the term.

And as to where it's all going, the answer is nowhere good.
Do NOT look at this chart from Citigroup unless you are sitting down

Interesting perspective.

Are you young enough for this to have been a post Communist education? (not asking which country as I don't want to 'out' you in any way, but I'm assuming E Eur = ex Communist, so sorry if incorrect)

Your 3rd para leapt out with the references to "supply of workers for the factories", "elites" and "exploitation" - it is not how anyone would have been taught history here at school. We have our own ideological phrases

People ask how Britain became "great"?

I was taught that Britain became "great" (as in rich) by being one of the earliest countries to have an industrial revolution and having its working classes be the engine of the revolution in pretty horrible conditions. Concurrently, it had a massive army/navy that colonised countries full of natural resources, bringing in materials to be worked/manufactured in Britain and, as a seafaring nation, effectively exporting around the world.

I was taught that the working class were encouraged to have children so that there was a never ending supply of workers for the factories and men for the army/navy. The upper and newly growing middle classes became increasingly guilty about this exploitation and began to grow a conscience, charities grew, workhouses were abolished, the NHS and the welfare state were established. Also seem to remember something about the "elite" being killed off in the first world war with the death of so many young men from the ruling classes changing the make up of society.

Then there was something about the population imbalance due to the deaths of many men in the first world war leading to a drop in live births and subsequent death/maiming of men in the second world war. Hence immigration was encouraged to fill jobs that could not be filled.

Also learnt that Britian got a burst of prosperity and chance to be "great" again with the discovery of how to properly harness North Sea Oil (in the sixties?).

This was mostly taught to me in Eastern Europe, no idea how it compares to the history those educated here were taught and I apologise if it appears offensive.

It seems that the new waves of immigration were not due to a lack of available workers as unemployment has been high since the eighties but as in a lack of people able to do the jobs because a) the UK massively undertrained young people in manual trades, b)to take jobs such as security guard, waitress, cleaner, carehome worker would mean a drop in living standards/increase in work hours that the population could not accept due to very high cost of living and support from the welfare state.

Kind of fascinating as to where it's all going to go from here as Britain surely cannot afford to keep such a massive public sector with pension provision/welfare state/NHS alive unless it makes another discovery on the level of North Sea oil as it would seem the time has passed for stealing other countries' natural resources. We were told of course that the City and financial engineering were the current great export but recent experience shows that there might have been some flaw in this plan.

123 I would NEVER call any one a Mongrel because of their multi heritage and I hope you would not either. What an awful thing to say. I'm merely pointing out that the world and Britain has always been migratory and migration has shaped this country. Try looking at the bigger picture.

I am an immigrant.

I speak the local language, I work, I pay taxes, don't claim benefits, I look, dress and act like the locals.

I look foreign.

Funny - some of the locals stare at me when I use public transport and look as if I someone has shat on their shoes. Others quickly avert their stare when I look in their direction.

Some are genuinely interested in my dd's and make small talk if the opportunity arises.

I agree that of course there are going to be ignorant people like that wherever you go and there are a large number of lazy British people who sponge off the government because it's made easy for them... the thing is we rarely hear the positive side of immigration because that doesn't sell papers and that is so irresponsible.... it makes me so mad because it tarnishes everyone and the outside world have a negative perception of the British.

But you have to remember that this is a very liberal country - where I live there are all sorts of churchs/mosques and institutions for people from all walks of life... there are other countries in Europe who have banned this from their societies and some others who are even trying, as we speak, to ban forms of religious dress... I don't think that would ever happen here. Do you?

I work in an office where 40% of the staff are Polish and not one of them doesn't work very hard. They all speak to each other in Polish and it has never been an issue. Never.

I think that the majority of informed people who worry about immigration are aggrieved because of how crowded they feel Britain is becoming - not because of which race makes up those crowds

I am an immigrant.

I speak the local language, I work, I pay taxes, don't claim benefits, I look, dress and act like the locals.

Funny - the locals don't have a problem with me.

Mariepuree the things you say about British people would be so offensive if said about anyone else. I love that you can make such massive generalisations

You obviously don't feel much for this country despite claiming to 'love it'. You clearly see yourself as somehow better then 'idiot Brits'.... imagine if British people thought they were better than you Cuts both ways you know.

MP -

that post sounds as if it came from a different person and I would struggle to disagree with any of it. Factual, genuinely felt, unemotive and from someone I would enjoy talking to (not actively avoid) IRL.

Thank you.

Oh and BTW, I love this country and I love living here, so no direspect from me

I agree with mariepuree.

I'm an immigrant, but because I a) am white and b) speak with an English accent, nobody questions my right to be here.

On the other hand many 3rd and 4th generation Brits from immigrant families are treated with disdain and disrespect because of the colour of their skin, even though they are ostensibly (sp?) more 'British' than me. It's just racism wearinga different hat.

I've emigrated to Canada and some of the emigration/ex-pat web sites are full of frankly racist people who are busy trying to "get away from all the immigrants". Strange really because the countries they usually are trying to move to are founded almost entirely on immigrants, and of course that's what they will themselves become.

Sadly there are immigrant hating people in most countries. There is a lot of racism and xenophobia about.

Also many many people say very negative things about the UK, and very few of them are immigrants, or have immigrant heritage. When we said we were thinking of moving I was amazed at how many people (many of whom we were meeting for the first time) immediately started to say bad things about the UK, assuming that we were moving because it's too crowded/too many immigrants/too much crime etc etc. In fact I love England (and Wales too, I don't know Scotland or Northern Ireland very well) and would be happy to return.

"I do wonder how Britain ever became Great with so many idiots on its shores!"

Listen to yourself. Not sure how you think that is an acceptable thing to say. What ever happened to patriotism? - if the place is that bad and full of so many 'idiots' why is it such a popular choice for so many. So fed up of people being on such a downer about this country - ESPECIALLY PEOPLE WHO LIVE HERE.

You can't blame people for being slightly miffed at times, people who have paid into the system for so many years being told by our media what a bad deal they are getting - people that know no different to question what they read.

And why does the concerns about immigration have to come down to an issue of race? I don't think it is... Where do you live M?... Have you recently tried to get on the tube in rush hour in London? I had to all through my pregnancy. It was horrendous and dangerous - something has to give as services are under pressure - you can't deny it.

NINJACAT The next thing you'll be calling the English are 'mongrels' I've heard this before. Most MNs would not dream of slagging of the Irish, the Scots, Welsh etc, but feels very comfortable in doing down the English. Orson Wells was right "English Socialists are the only ones who hate their own country". It really gets on my nerves.

MARIEPUREE It's got nothing to do with colour, most Eastern Europeans are white. Mass immigration from EU countries is being discussed because it effects the lives of some of the people of this country. We now see a situation where some Polish people are more educated than English people (thanks our schooling system, where 1 in 4 boys comes out of school and cannot read or write properly) and may get jobs ahead and instead of local people. What politicians fail to tell the electorate is that they can do nothing about immigration from EU countries,(some 28) and that another 8 countries wish to join the EU. and there populations are 157 million. so a points system makes little or no difference to the immigration statistics.

And would be worth reading TArantula's post about the origins of Great in GB. You might learn something, not least about being an egregious twonk. I've left some links to definitions to help you.

And would be interesting to hear MP on these questions which she has ignored:

"What do you think of racists generally? Do you consider yourself to be one?"

I'm British and I can say with some conviction that a lot of British people are, in fact, idiots.

What, so now we're not allowed to say bad things about our countries?

'I can say that whatever country I was born in (or my parents were born in) I would not be so disrespectful to that country or my fellow countrymen.

If I wasn't born in a country but lived there, I wouldn't feel comfortable to make such disrespectful comments about that country and it's countrymen.'

But if mariepuree's parents were immigrants in the 1960s, then she's was probably born here, in which case her countrymen are other native Brits?