Does anyone have any actual personal experience of immigration being a problem?

The shop is operating illegally and you should boycott their 'yummy looking food' on principle. Like the B&B that turned down the gay couple.... not acceptable. Hope the police or the Trading Standards people get them sorted out. Does nothing to improve community relations.

Highlander: np, hope you're having fun with the potty training!

I think that's a fair process to bring in, tbh if somebody had asked me if it happened I'd naturally assume that it did already, because medical practices and teachings differ by location so it's only logical for foreign doctors to undergo British tests first or be provided additional training before they start work.

Does anybody know if there is a system in place for foreign social workers? Just out of curiousity as I know that a large percentage of my local social workers are South African and I would assume that though the job is similar that there would be differences in laws and whatnot.

Verity: surely that's illegal and some form of discrimination?!

That's racist discrimination veritythebrave and you should report the shop to the authorities. If you ran a shop with a sign saying 'no Poles' you'd expect to feel the full weight of the law.....

Only in one sense: round here fields are being ploughed up for new homes. It's not that the new homes are going to immigrants, necessarily, but they are contributing to the increase in population that means that beautiful countryside is lost--for good.

On the plus side, some Polish and Indian immigrants round here have sent their children to the village school, which is great: we needed extra children. I work with one of the INdian boys as a volunteer and he is delightful. A real asset.

Rural communities in the Lincolnshire area would be a good example. Previously rather isolated, many of them are now hosting large numbers of migrant workers who are brought in to work in the fields and packhouses - some temporary, some permanent. In the past, migrant workers tended to settle in industrial towns.... Liverpool, Luton, Bradford, Birmingham... because that's where the jobs were.

Xenophobia is not new and fears about Britain being 'flooded with foreigners' go back centuries. People arriving from overseas - whether it was Jews in the 1900's or Jamaicans in the 1950's - got a very frosty reception and have had to work had to achieve acceptance.

Simply pointing out that it's not necessary for your own life to be worse in order to have a visceral (illogical) objection to strangers.

riven, that's the problem with the UK. We're not intrsinsically sociable, welcoming people. Community just doesn't exist. I'd love for our area to have a community association that all the local residents participated in.

Porphro - sorry not to get back to you. potty training.

Competancy - pass the UK exam that everyone else in that profession has sat to prove their competancy in a specified area. Thus,for hospital medicine, immigrants would have to pass the MRCP/MRCS as a bare minimum. In the past, doctors from the asain sub-continent have not had a problem doing this. The problem now is that EU docotrs have equivalncy in the UK, even when their style of practice is radically differnt to that of the UK. Poland, for example.

This is the most balanced debate about immigration I have seen yet! Thank you all.

But in smaller communities with no previous history of multi-ethnicity, it can be more unsettling then may be appreciated.

Can I ask chill where are these smaller communities with no previous history of immigrants coming to live? And noe they are coming in?

Cos we have had immigration influxes since the 50's for this part of history

Well said, Coolfonz.

Immigration largely from Eastern Europe does have a downside near me. Birth rate has shot up, with huge pressures on maternity services and knock on effects for the rest of the NHS. (Not least the costs of translation services.) Also problems with school places in the nearest large town.

Big changes in population can be very disturbing for the locals. Friend of mine who has been away from the large town for years has come back to look after her elderly parents and feels very out of place. Not just this most recent wave of E European but the SE Asian population has boomed since she left. Obviously the town would have changed anyway in two decades but it's much more striking when the cause is mass immigration. Massive cultural differences - I know a lot of long-standing locals were very upset and angry when Muslim extremists attacked a march by the local regiment. (I imagine a lot of Muslim people were pissed off too.)

We live in a part of South London which is very popular with new immigrants (because it's affordable).

There are benefits:

• We have a fabulous nanny who happens to be Polish. Ditto cleaner. They seem to have a strong work ethic from which some of us could learn a lot.
• Huge variety of culture and food in the area.
• Energy and diversity about the place.
• Personally, I like meeting and living around people from other cultures. I grew up in a very suburban white middle class part of Surrey which was immeasurably dull, and so I now crave contrast.

Also some big downsides:

• Huge gangs of men hanging around outside corner shops and Shisha cafes down near the station. I think they are mostly Somali refugees. They live in pretty dire conditions (not as bad as what they've escaped I assume) in awful crowded flats above said shops on the High Road.
• Massive overcrowding in primary schools in the borough. to the extent that some children aren't getting places at all. Also a growing divide between white middle class kids who get sent to the local private schools, and children of immigrant families or poorer kids from the estates who go to the state schools. Not a healthy path to go down IMO.
• Health services in the area under huge pressure from sudden influx of new people to the borough.
• Not sure how easy new immigrants are finding it to get jobs in the area - seem to be a lot of young Eastern European lads hanging about swilling lager and getting aggressive, British-lager-lout style...

Don't know what the answer is though. I am pro-immigration, but the sudden influx of new people in one concentrated area does bring with it some very significant challenges.

The trouble with debates on immigration is that every single bone fide racist in the country piles in on the back of the debate.

The right wing control the media and want to make sure people do not look at the way the prevailing political ideology of the last 30 years has screwed ordinary people.

When was the last time anyone read an article criticising the idea of natural unemployment or structural unemployment levels? That 5-7pc of the workforce must be unemployed to allow the market to work efficiently.

The vast majority of this country's problems are about free market or neo-liberal economics. Including the idea of suppressing working people's wages to allow multi national business and banking to work without inflation. Of which large scale people movements are just one symptom.

I know quite a lot of people who are concerned about immigration. Not because they are missing out on jobs or housing, necessarily, but more because of the rapid changes they see in their home town e.g. large numbers of people with foreign dress and foreign accents.

It's rather different in a cosmopolitan city like London or Birmingham where ethnic diversity is commonplace. But in smaller communities with no previous history of multi-ethnicity, it can be more unsettling then may be appreciated.

TheHeathen: Thanks for the link It's very intersting! I didn't know that asylum seekers weren't allowed to work at all. It explains a bit. I think that everybody should have the right to work if they are in this country legally, and that those receiving financial help from a government body should be asked to work for that help, but I'm not sure what to make of asylum seekers not being able to work. Why are they not allowed too? It seems counter productive to let them stay but have so much control over them, essentially stopping them from becoming active members of British society which is another thing that people who believe immigrants should 'go back home' complain about.

Highlander, what do you mean by UK competancy? Speaking/writing the language? Genuinely

I feel that generally, its very narrow minded to blame immigrants for our problems, they're a scapegoat and unfortunately it's unlikely to change. We have every right to move to a different country, why shouldn't people be allowed to do the same here? Immigrants usually take the jobs that British people feel are below them, so the taking jobs argument is fruitless as if immigrants weren't here to do those jobs then who would?

Have also seen it from the opposite way. We are british and lived in Spain for 6 years. The racism there is unbelievable - and yes, they think everyone is taking their jobs and benefits too but guess what, they're not because most employers will take on a local over a foreigner (even someone from the next province is considered a foreigner in some areas) and there are no equal opportunities laws in evidence, and even though EU legislation requires them to offer support equal to other members they don't and it's up to you to challenge it and take it through the courts if you believe that you are entitled to a benefit of any kind, including free healthcare. It's not automatic.

So many countries seem to have the same view, and it seems many are basing their opinions on perceptions and not on reality.

I do think immigration is great; I personally love meeting people from different countries. But, to work in the UK, you should have UK competancy.

I don't think anyone has a problem with people coming here working hard and contributing to our society. However my son has lost a lot of work because eastern european workers are willing to work for a lot less money than british workers (sometimes less than minimum wage). Although he says they are extremely hard workers and are willing to work long hours, they are saving every penny they can so they can buy houses in their own country which are extremely cheap. Something they could never have dreamed of before now. So most of what they earn is being taken out of this country. Can't blame them really, however the contractor my son works for can't get any contracts.

asylum seekers don't get benefits, they get a subsistance allowance. Found this yesterday which explains it quite well.

SweetGrapes: I think it is only asylum seekers as you say, but someone else would need to confirm it

It just pees me off as that is why so many people get peeved at immigrants, and my father is an Iranian immigrant who came over and has worked from the day he arrived yet gets put into the same category as the illegal immigrants and those seeking asylum. Not that I think seeking asylum is wrong of course, I just think that those in receipt of benefits or other payouts from the government should do something to earn them, British or not.

PorphyrophillicPixie
"I do get annoyed about immigrants coming and getting the housing and benefits"

If you are here on a work permit (ie non-EU) then there is no way you can access any benefits. The condition of the visa is that you have no recourse to public funds.
Not sure about EU - can they just come here and claim? Asylum seekers are the only ones who can do that aren't they?

From the other side, one of my friends recently has applied for naturalization. She was asking me what benefits she would get as "the British get a lot of benefits, don't they?" She was a little disappointed to learn otherwise. Her dh is in a good job fairly decently paid, so no way...

My brother in law's younger brother was murdered by a polish guy. I don't blame immigration though - where we live carrying a knife is probably quite normal. Although apparently it is legal to carry a knife in Poland.

We have loads of Polish here but to be honest they don't seem to cause too much bother but I can tell you they love a drink. So what with all the drinking, stabbing and raping they fit in really well with the local white british guys.