attention prospective Tory voters (unless you really don't care about "ordinary people")

TheFallenMadonna, you don't actually believe the policies do you? It's all spin, they chuck it in the bin. They rip up their manifestos. The figures are massaged by all sides. The public don't pay attention to the politicos running their sliderules over the figures, they know the score, they've seen it all before. People vote on the basis of how they perceive the parties, what they think their objectives are and their opinion of how effective they will be.

To be fair, he would have been slated had he referred to himself as working class.

Also it would be a bit disingenuous for him to do so considering his salary and position.

'teachers are now allowed to teach about the existence of homosexuality' not when it comes at the expense of the good bits in the new RE GCSE syllabus I'm not.

You vote how you like, but nothing on this earth can or will convince me to vote Labour.

My sister is a low paid worker, and has a large proportion of her childcare covered by tax credits.

I was quite shocked to hear Gordon Brown when he was announcing the election refer to himself proudly as coming from 'an ordinary middle class family'. I suppose this was meant to be another crack at DC for being a 'toff', but it left me wondering who is standing up for the working class if the LABOUR party does not represent the LABOURERS, nor the brickies, the postpersons, the cleaners, hairdressers, factory workers, lorry drivers, nursery nurses, firefighters, etc.etc.etc. - then who does? I do not know quite how it started but we now seem to split society into 3 classes - the toffs, the middle classes, and the benefit cheats. What about the workers?

This Labour government is giving tax concessions and help with child care costs to those earning up to £50,000 whilst turning a blind eye to low paid workers who cannot afford to work because CHILD CARE COSTS MORE THAN THEY CAN EARN.
2 DC in nursery 5 days a week = £400;
shopworker, 35 hour week at £7 = £245.
Many do work but only because they can rely on e.g.unpaid Grandparents, sisters on maternity leave, or shift working partners because they cannot afford childcare. Yes there are free nursery places for over 3's BUT what use is 09.15 to 11.45 daily to a working parent?

Feel slightly better, having got that off my chest.

Fining OAPs! Yes, of course! And I bet the bloke who decides whether it's shut or not will be Polish too!
Or maybe he'll have stolen the poor OAP's bin the week before. Bloody foreigners!

Lincs you are making yourself look daft with that latest rant. You are also not doing Cameron any favours, he wants us to believe that the days of the nasty party are gone. You are just reminding us what they are actually like.

Just the OAPs?

Honestly, if you actually referred to stated policy, I'd be more convinced. Rather than talking about parties being "inclined" to do swomething, or simply making things up.

Well Scary, I'm no lover of the nanny state but personally I'm glad less pensioners are freezing to death and that teachers are now allowed to teach about the existence of homosexuality rather than be gagged by the restrictions of section 28 which the Tories fought to keep in place.

Oh and that handguns are no longer legal.

"He forgets to mention that the Tories are inclined to cut taxes on all strata of society"

Interesting then he chooses to start off his massive give away by scrapping IHT for the very richest.

If Brown gets back in he'll start fining old age pensioners £100 if their bin lids aren't shut. That's how he'll raise the money that he blew on his banker buddies. The creditors want their money and Brown's already promised them that he'll squeeze it out of us.

Well, I'm married, white, R.C, able-bodied and fairly affluent. We pay for school and have private health cover through DH's work. Many Tory policies would benefit us quite nicely; Inheritance tax for instance will hit us hard when DH's Mum shuffles off.

-But hang on, it's not just about me, is it?

'Shinyandnew, I wish we could explain to more young people how divisive it was before 97.'

And post 97, the creeping intrusion of the state into every day life. Taxes raised by the back door - NI increases, fiscal drag, personal allowances not raised, inequality in schools funding, rural deprivation, defence under funded, education dumbed down, a tick box culture which achieved squat, change for changes sake, proliferation of non jobs, penalising kids who weren't one the first in their families to go to uni (even though the state mandates that their parents had to have degrees to do their jobs), spin, spin and more spin, burying bad news.....

I will NOT be voting Labour.

Hair? Hari

Well, perhaps Hair didn;t mention it because the Tories didn;t then?

Admittedly, having read thier draft manifestos, I can see why people are making stuff up - to fill in the gaps..

maybe not, but Labour certainly won't. The Tories will cut red tape, they will free up business, so that it can soak up the unemployed and lift us out of the disaster that Labour has bequeathed us.

But aren't Labour planning on bringing a new points system similar to Australia?

And the Lib Dems are going to bring in a regional points system ensuring that areas who actually want more migrant workers get them. As well as giving more power to border control and offering long term migrants the chance to become tax paying citizens.

How are the Tories planning on implementing change? I don't understand what you mean by quotas and requirements.

"By brogan2 Fri 09-Apr-10 23:58:58
Shinyandnew, I wish we could explain to more young people how divisive it was before 97. How elitist the Tories were and how at their very core they don't give a shit unless you're white, wealthy and able-bodied. "

And Labour dont give a shit about you if you are, they prefer you to be foreign, not english, not white, not married, not heterosexual and not christian - Harriet Harman even invented a Bill to enshrine this bigotry and prejudice in law, laughingly and ironically called The Equality Bill, because equality isnt at all what its about.

Unless you're one of the boys, then they invent a government nonjob for you - "Diversity Consultant" or " Assistant Lesbian Boxing Coordinator". They created 600,000 public jobs like this, all useless, if they sacked half the useless LGO's and mates on quangos it would amount to millions and millions saved.

I haven't read the detail on Tory immigration policy but I cannot imagine that they are going to dismantle article 45 (I think!) which gives free passage across member states to all its citizens.

Or have I missed that?

Will the conservatives cut NI? I have read their draft economics manifesto, and all they say is that they will "try to avoid" the NI increase that Labour propose. Which si quite different. Especially with the "try"...

They will limit it considerably, vastly, more than Labour ever did. They will introduce quotas and requirements.

looks like typical Johann Hari scaremongering. Smacks of desperation. Adds up to about £10 billion. That is dwarfed by the billions that Brown blew on his banker friends after loosening regulation for them.

Hari, the Independent's class warrior, champion of the common folk, educated at Cambridge, a real grafter wielding his pencil in support of the proleriat, doesn't mention the NI cuts which will help the "big wide middle and bottom of British society" maintain their employment. He doesn't mention how the Tories will cut the bureaucrats' pensions that the common folk have to fork out for. He doesn't mention how our council taxes will be less than under Cameron than under his profligate Labour buddies. He forgets to mention that the Tories are inclined to cut taxes on all strata of society, unlike his pals who believe in taxing until the pips squeak and then blowing the money willy-nilly on all manner of trendy misguided policies. He doesn't mention that poor old pensioners will no longer be stripped of all their assets when they go into care, but then again he never did care.

Hari doesn't care about us, he cares about himself, he wants to carry on swanning around Westminster meeting up with those in power. He knows his time is up, he knows the gravy train is screeching to a halt, so he is resorting to the tactics of the scoundrel. "Comrades it's class war, don't let the Old Etonians grind you down" he cries from a safe position far to the rear. But no one's listening, he looks round and sees he's on his own, it's a shame but they've heard it all before, there's no way he can fool them any more.

Lincstash, the vast majority of immigrants have been EU migrants who have free movement throughout all EU countries, as do you.

Many of those who come to this country take on jobs which no-one else is willing to do. Our NHS would crumble without migrant workers.

Why are the jobs going to Polish workers? Are they working harder? Better qualified?Willing to work for minimum wage? There must be a reason or are you saying it's because they are Poilsh?

Shinyandnew, I wish we could explain to more young people how divisive it was before 97. How elitist the Tories were and how at their very core they don't give a shit unless you're white, wealthy and able-bodied.

What do the Tories plan to do about immigration?