Europhobe or Europhile?

Not neccessarily, it might be just spent on more admin or other stuff.

The point obviously being that if we has £450,000,000 more per day for the NHS, then the drug could be afforded.

In the case of NHS spend - it would make sense to look at how the NHS uses its budget and how they could maximise what they can buy, before blaming the cost of the EU for her not getting the cancer drug.

Precisely. I live just outside Brussels and enjoy it, but it is the cost of the EU that annoys me and the wastage.

I love Europe but hate the EU, I used to work in Strasbourg, and have lots of German and French friends. I just think that EU membership is too expensive especially now that the UK owes so much money. At the moment we pay £45,000,000 a day but hidden away in last month's budget was the fact that our contribution is set to double over the next two years. Someone told me that Norway only has to pay £150,000,000 a year to trade with the EU which is about 100 times less than what the UK have to pay.

At the same time we are being told that drugs to combat cancer, Alzheimer's disease, rheumatoid arthritis and osteoporosis, which are widely available in the Europe, are too expensive for our GPs to prescribe. There?s Nikki Phelps, 37, and her husband having to sell their house in order to pay for the cancer drug she needs so that she can have a few more years with her 2 year old twin boys. It would only cost the NHS £100 per day to extend her life and that of many others. Some of the £45,000,000 per day we pay the EU would help save and/or prolong a lot of lives.

Has anyone read "Bloody Foreigners: The Story of Immigration to Britain" by Robert Winder? It's a fascinating book, and particularly interesting on the role played by foreigners in the development of the British economy (starting with the English brewing industry, which wouldn't have been up to much without Flemish immigrants).

"Lincstash I am beginning to wonder if you are for real. Do you express these views out loud in RL? I have never heard anyone talking like you."

Pendulum, you need to get out more.

Lincstash you are confused about who the English are. The English are Germans, those Germans that you don't like. The English are Anglo-Saxons, England is a German word and English is a Germanic language, with 40% French words like parliament and beef. The English did not originate on this island, your ancestors are in Germany. Go and visit Germany, they will welcome you and you will learn about your heritage.

The French already conquered us in 1066. Most of our aristocracy have French names and are of French origin, coming over with the Norman invasion.

Churchill was one of them. Churchill was so keen on France that in 1940 he proposed union of England and France, as Ted Heath, a man who knew him well, will tell you

"Churchill to have said otherwise, for this was the same man who in June 1940, as France was succumbing to German invasion, wrote, published and proposed, with the full support of his War Cabinet, the Declaration of Union between Great Britain and France, stating: "The two governments declare that France and Great Britain shall no longer be two nations, but one Franco-British Union. The constitution of the Union will provide for joint organs of defence, foreign, financial and economic policies. Every citizen of France will enjoy immediately citizenship of Great Britain; every British subject will become a citizen of France." Unfortunately the French were being overwhelmed by the Germans and could not respond to his proposal."

www.independent.co.uk/opinion/a-eurosceptic-churchill-never-1365239.html

Union of Britain and France was discussed again in 1956 when Anthony Eden was in power.
www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jan/16/france.past

The French aren't running the EU. The French people don't trust the EU, that's why they voted against it. But the people who are running the EU told the French politicians to hold the vote again, until the French people got it right.

You've got it wrong, the French are in charge of diddley squat. So your fears about the French are misplaced and your statement below is misguided.
"We already KNOW what there like, thats why we dont like them, and we dont trust them, and we would be fools to hand control of our nation over to them."

You need to find out who is in charge.

scaryteacher, if the UK applied the same standards to its accounts that the EU does, they wouldn't ever be signed off either.

Lincstash I am beginning to wonder if you are for real. Do you express these views out loud in RL? I have never heard anyone talking like you.

@MRIC

"Which is why I'm in favour of the EU; the more we get to know our neighbours, trading partners and (in my case at least) close friends the rarer xenophobia like yours will become."

Weve been there and done that - didnt you ever do history in school. The history of these islands tells us that the french will destroy us given the chance - do you really want me to list the time they have tried to invade us, and the times they have assisted out enemies, all the times weve caught them selling arms to our opponents - it was even the frnch wgo supplied arms to the irish rebellion in the middle of WW1 in 1916 - the same time we were saving there necks once again from another german invasion!!!

History tells us that all nations are different in there nature, and nations never change in there characters. The aims of the French and Germans are the same now as they were in the 18th century. These aims include european domination and the destruction of england, the old enemy.

You only have to look at the way the EU works to see what the french are like - they break the rules whenever it suits them, when they strike its always aimed so only the english suffer - funny how most of the strikes occur only a channel ports. The classic example of the picking and choosing of the rules was the illegal ban on our beef they conducted for years, with the sole aim of burying our beef export industry - permanently.

We already KNOW what there like, thats why we dont like them, and we dont trust them, and we would be fools to hand control of our nation over to them. Its you thats behind in this area.

'For example, I also believe that the EU is undemocratic, over-bureaucratic and probably corrupt. But it's also very new and it will take a while to improve.' Not that new in that plenty of people have made shedloads from it (the Kinnocks for example?). How long do we need to wait for it to improve? How does spending money on the creation of a comic book featuring workers from the EU in Africa for instance help anyone? (see Daily Telegraph, 20/02/10)

If a business failed to get it's accounts signed off for years, it would fold, or be investigated - why hasn't that happened with the EU?

I have no problem with a loose federation of trading partners, but I do NOT want closer political, monetary and legal integration.

The "ten truths" stuff comes from a website run by David Noakes, an ex-candidate for the UKIP leadership.

He left UKIP claiming that it had been infiltrated by EU moles.

According to UKIP Watch, Noakes has also alleged that David Cameron has family links to the Nazi party.

Sounds like the kind of guy we should sit up and take notice of.

"I don't get how having a different system of weights and measures can affect your national identity (I still feel Irish since they switched over)."

The metrication has nowt to do with the EU anyway.

hansard.millbanksystems.com/written_answers/1965/may/24/weights-and-measures-metric-system#S5CV0713P 019650524CWA_171

Above link is to a house of commons debate from 1965, which was 8 years before the UK joined EU, in which the British Industry made it clear that the metric system would be better for the British Industry as it would help increase exports sales.

It already had been legal since 1864 anyway.

linctash, to be honest I can't be arsed to pull it apart line by line. Why should I if you can't be even arsed to credit who's written it in the first place?

Your 10 truths are tosh, by the way. I have to go to the (european) supermarket, if Ive got time later, Ill pull them apart 1 by 1. If I can be arsed. Think for yourself, please, and try not to be so scared.
Also, maybe you would like to live in a european country for a year or two, you might realise that things are rather different from how you think they are.

linctash
YOU are missing the point about the veg harvesters. The system I described already exists (or did when I looked at it last). It merely needs to be extended to problem areas like veg harvesting.

Illegal immigrants havent broken the 10 commandments. They are doing nothing wicked. They are illegal because the government says so, that's all. Therefore, if there is a genuine need for their labour (which it would appear that there is - I dont buy your version of local people queueing up to do the jobs, as Ive heard a lot of whinging by farmers that they cant recruit enough people in the past, eg to get up early in the morning), it makes sense to make the illegals legal.

Why on earth are you getting so worked up about that bit of water between England and France? Why on earth should it be the english channel? Anglo-French channel is far more logical. To our eternal shame, the French dont try to appropriate it by calling it La Manche Francaise,lets follow their example and drop the "english".

@WidowWadman

Ah so you cant actually show any of it is wrong, just that you think, with no counterexample, that its 'tosh'.

As usual, you put the counter arguments to the europhiles, and they havent a clue. Your lack of ability to show even one sentance is wrong shows the whole europhile movement is based on unreasoned prejudice, you just swallowed the pro-EU propaganda whole without questioning it.

Game set and match, now can we pull out please while were still here, and we still can ?

How does it make you a europhobe if you don't want the uk to belong to the EU btw?

I think the. EU is undemocratic, it is corrupt and full of fat cats.

It costs us vAst amounts in bureaucracy and £££ to belong and I don't see much in the way of benefits from it.

I embrace the differences in the nations of Europe but the EU membership is nothing but bondage for the UK.

"Well The Eu has set about removing anything that is 'english' - the latest wheeze is to remove the name 'The English Channel' and replace it with 'The Anglo-French Pond' - what an insult!!. They had a good go at getting rid of our weights and measures and making us totally metric, they want to get rid of our currency, bearing the head of the Queen, and replace it with some dross printed in Brussels."

lincstash - I don't understand how the 'removal' of any of those things can make you feel less English. Yes they may be part of a national identity in a nice, warm, fuzzy way, but would you really feel less English without them? TBH I have never heard of 'The Anglo-French Pond' - I tend to call it La Manche since I live in France.

I don't get how having a different system of weights and measures can affect your national identity (I still feel Irish since they switched over).

Shouldn't you at least name the source where you lifted that tosh from?

And the pity is Linctash that not many people even know the full extent to which we have been hi-jacked by the EU, or care.

Only bit I disagree with is that British Constitution has never been a written Constitution.

TEN TRUTHS ABOUT THE EU:

1. The leaderships of the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties have been taken over by pro-Europeans. These leaderships implement the EU's policy, and ignore the wishes of their voters. That's why your vote doesn't make a difference.

1. The six European Union treaties give it the constitution of a dictatorship, and the laws of a police state. Dictatorships lead to oppression and poverty. Politicians conceal the EU?s Constitution is similar to the old Soviet Union's.

1. The Queen has signed all six EU constitutional treaties. These treaties make it clear the EU will abolish the nations of Britain and England (and our Lib-Dem, Labour and Conservative parties, Lisbon Treaty clause 8A-4).

1. The EU is illegal under British law. Five Prime Ministers and the Queen have committed six acts of Treason by signing the EU treaties which will abolish our nation and replace it with the EU; they secretly repealed two of the five laws of treason in the 1998 Crime and Disorder Act (s36.3) to escape a prosecution.

1. The police state growing around you, and reported on by some national newspapers, is the EU police state. We've been in the EU for 36 years, we are harmonising our laws with the EU, the emerging police state is the result.

1. Political correctness, the undermining of parents, the family and teachers, the teaching of sex and homosexuality to under tens, the promotion of single parent families etc. etc. is subversion by the EU or its Common Purpose organisation over the last 34 years, using the 200+ techniques of the German Frankfurt School.

1. The EU will be an economic disaster. We now lose £45 billion a year trading with Europe; before we joined we broke even. The EU's 120,000 regulations cost us £100 billion a year (Better Regulation Commission Annual Report 2005); they will bring us a soviet style command economy and poverty. Our politicians lied to us.

1. If you have voted Conservative, Labour or Lib Dem over the last 35 years you have voted for the EU police state, and for the abolition of your own party.

1. German Chancellor Angela Merkel forced the Reform or Lisbon Treaty on us (passed by Westminster 21st January, 138 majority) which replaced the British Constitution with the EU?s on 1st January 2009. Westminster is now powerless and defunct. The EU treaties don?t allow for a British General Election, due by 5th May 2010, when the EU will have the power to abolish Westminster. You will then be imprisoned inside the EU police state, and ruled by unelected EU dictators, who will control the nuclear weapons of what used to be Britain and France.

10. Britain is the fifth largest economy amongst the world's 200 nations. Forget elections and parties, whose leaderships are controlled by the EU. Fight the direct anti EU campaigns on the eutruth website to get Britain back before its too late. We need a General Strike against the EU. Start by visiting your local MP and warn him he will lose his £240,000 salary and expenses when the EU closes Westminster.

AND THE SEVEN CLAUSES DESIGNED TO DESTROY ALL NATIONAL IDENTITIES

From Edward Heath?s Treaty of Accession of 1972, to the Reform or Lisbon Treaty 2008, politicians have lied about the content of the EU?s six Constitutional Treaties.

A dictatorship: an executive of unelected politburos

Page 18 Article 9: Defines the Executive of the EU: three unelected politiburos on the soviet model. The only chance we have of representation is in the European Council, which starts off as being one Prime Minister per country (but can be chosen by EU politicians). But these 27 Heads of State (Gordon Brown is ours) are the very ones who illegally forced us into the EU against our wishes in the first place: they are already bought and paid for by the EU.

Below the politiburos is the European Court of Justice, the one that ruled in case EUCJ 274/99 that it is illegal to criticise the EU. When EU Budget Director Marta Andreasen was fired for revealing that 95% of the EU?s expenditure could not be accounted for, this court ruled she should be denied compensation because she told the truth. This is the court that interprets and enforces these treaties.

At the bottom is the powerless sham EU Parliament, the only vote we will get. It is the Soviet system, but with a more tyrannical constitution, 2,000 controlling pages long instead of the Soviet 80 pages.

The end of the Lib-Dem, Labour and Conservative Parties

Page 16 Article 8A-4. ?Political parties at European level contribute to forming European political awareness and to expressing the will of citizens of the Union.?

What does this mean? At the EU?s Party Financing Conference in Madrid in June 1999, parties at the European level were defined as parties with voters in more than 10 countries. The Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem Parties have voters in only one country, Britain.

Under this clause, British parties do not contribute and do not express the will of the EU?s citizens. That empowers the EU to abolish our Lib Lab Con, the very parties whose leaderships have worked so hard to illegally force us into the EU.

Not possible? Read the ½ page 1933 German Enabling Act. It didn?t mention political parties, but was used to abolish them. Given Lisbon removes the last 20% of Westminster?s powers, it makes perfect sense to close Westminster when its current five year term expires in May 2010. By then, it will have been powerless and defunct for 17 months.

The EU is a Military Union: scores of clauses including:

Page 39 10A-c-3 "Member States shall make civilian and military capabilities available tothe Union for the implementation of the common security and defence policy,?

?Member States shall undertake progressively to improve their military capabilities.?

Three unelected EU politburos will control the nuclear weapons of the former nations of Britain and France. The Treaty of Elysee 1963 gives Germany effective voting control of the EU. Nuclear weapons controlled by German dictators? What is that a recipe for?

Petitions: We are told what to ask for

Pages 17 8B-4. ?Not less than one million citizens who are nationals of many Member States may take the initiative of inviting the European Commission, within the framework of its powers, to submit any appropriate proposal on matters where citizens consider that a legal act of the Union is required for the purpose of implementing the Treaties.?

Wonderful. We may petition the EU government. But we are only allowed to ask for more laws to complete the EU dictatorship. We are forced to petition for the EU, Soviet style.

The EU can force the Euro on us:

Page 12, Article 2- 4. ?The Union shall establish an economic and monetary union whose currency is the euro.? Our politicians pretend this means nothing.

If our EU rulers were to impose the Euro on us under this clause, our British government, if still functioning, could in theory appeal. Except for decades our government has implemented EU treaties, laws, and regulations, not the wishes of the people. So it is unlikely it would appeal. Under this clause, an EU judge would have no choice but to impose the Euro on us.

(But they won?t. The EU dictatorship cannot be built while there is a strong and free Britain on its doorstep; we stopped them in 1914 and 1939. Don?t forget the EU was founded by Nazi Germany in 1940, and its design finalised at the conference at Berlin University in 1942, since when it has not changed. So they will destroy us politically with the treaties, economically with the 120,000 regulations and by destroying Sterling to give us poverty.)

We may not oppose the EU

Page 13, 3A-3, end: ?The Member States shall facilitate the achievement of the Union's tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives." In English:

?We must comply with the treaties, and we may not oppose the EU. ?

We are forced to obey the treaties

Page 14. 3A-4. ?Under the principle of proportionality, the content and form of Union action shall not exceed what is necessary to achieve the objectives of the Treaties.?

In English, ?the EU will not use more force than is necessary to compel us to comply with the treaties.? See page 13, 3A-3: The other EU states are to force us to comply too.

These are just two of scores of clauses that demolish our sovereignty and Britain.

Summary: Britain abolished on 1st January 2009.

The treaties are written to conceal their intent. For example, they ?take Primacy? over our written British Constitution and laws. A nation cannot have two constitutions, so this means the EU?s constitutional treaties replace the British Constitution. In other words, they abolish our Constitution (which is written, every word of it), but they are careful not to say that.

These six treaties are to be enforced by EU judges, paid by the EU, whose remit is to enforce them with the policy of ?Ever closer union?. So every ruling is biased in advance towards the EU, and against Britain.

These clauses, and hundreds of similar ones in the 2,000 pages of the six treaties, overwhelmingly abolish British sovereignty, and therefore the British nation.

History shows us dictatorships eliminate those who put it in power, as they are the greatest threat to remove it. In the EU dictatorship our MPs will suffer even more than we will. Watching our traitorous MPs suffer is the one thing we have to look forward to.

And did i mention the plan of the EU to break the entire UK into 'eurozones', completely removing all traces of the english nation? If thtas not an attack on out national identity and an attempt to eradicate it, what is it ?

Suggest you go and read THIS for the truth about the Lisbon Treaty and the EU plan to destroy the English.