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Politics

This is terrifying...!

36 replies

PanicMode · 26/03/2010 13:18

www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/7523175/Budget-2010-Labour-is-stealing-from-our-childrens-future-to-buy- votes.html

OP posts:
foxinsocks · 27/03/2010 08:46

you might be referring to my post tashtodd/Elenor (you know, you can always raise it on the thread itself rather than commenting somewhere else!)

I thought Cameron's response was rubbish and too aggressive. I want to hear what he's going to do. I don't want to hear shouting and name calling and him going red in the face (largely because I think he had been riled by the Belize taunting). I want answers and his plans and exactly how he thinks he will do a better job.

We've had none of that yet. Why anyone thinks Cameron will be our saviour when they have Osbourne as chancellor is beyond me. The man can barely string an economic sentence together.

We have sold out to the public sector. If you look at employment growth and salary growth, it has all happened in the public sector. I have been in the private sector for many years and this government is killing us.

I don't know if any articles have been written about this but HMRC now has the right to demand payment when they assess you. They have never had this right before so let's just say they slap an assessment on a business for £1m. To be able to defend your case, you now have to pay that amount IN ADVANCE of a tribunal. In this country we are now guilty until proven innocent. I can't go into details but we had one HMRC visit last year which resulted in an assessment being slapped on us. We'd done nothing wrong. The inspector had picked up something he thought might have happened but which hadn't. Luckily that new rule hadn't come into play yet otherwise we would have had to pay the assessment and then wait a year to get a tribunal date. It's worse than Africa.

In addition, HMRC have started applying rules retrospectively. So let's say one rule applied 5 years ago. They have decided, today, that another rule should have been in place and they will apply it as if it was in place 5 years ago. HMRC have announced these measures with great pride saying they will raise billions! Great! At the expense of driving every legitimate business out of the country. We cannot operate in the UK with such uncertainty over tax law.

This government has killed off the private sector and now wants a pop at banking sector which is one of the most important sectors of our economy (some would say too important but with the aggressive tax regime here at the moment, god knows why anyone would come here).

In our sector, we have seen 3 major companies relocate out of the UK this year, meaning hundreds of jobs were lost. It is a serious consideration for us and if we do so, it will mean everyone will be out of a job.

They are literally killing us. And all to pay for public sector final salary pensions, middle management bureaucracy in hospitals and support to win an election. I can see that the schools around me have improved but everyone I speak to in the NHS say v little filtered down to the bottom line.

I'd like to vote for an alternative but I'm not sure anyone has come up with anything solid yet.

One thing I know is that someone needs to do something to save the private sector and persuade companies to come back here and invest in the UK. With such an aggressive HMRC with untapped powers, uncertainty over tax law and huge public debt, at the moment, I wouldn't advise anyone to come here.

ABetaDad · 27/03/2010 08:44

JollyPirate - Jeff Randal is a really good financial journalist (one of the few there are) and he is quoting Govt figures for the budget report.

What it means for us we will soon be forced into the same austerity meausures (i.e public spending cuts) as Greece is now facing. We wil have no choice. It means mass unemployment or huge pay cuts for public sector workers. It means massive cuts in pubic services.

Goverments never want to impose the cuts necessary because it is unpopular (see the Greek situation) but eventualy the world capital markets refuse to lend any more money. At that point the Govt simply runs out of money and cannot pay public sector wages, pensions, or buy things like drugs for hospitals, etc. That is when riots start. Again look at what is happening in Greece now.

As we saw in 1976 in the UK when the last Labour Govt did this, the Internatinal Monetary Fund (IMF) is usually called in and the austerity measures necessary are then imposed in return for emergency loans funded by other Governments. In effect the UK Govt would no longer be able to govern as it would be under the control of the IMF and the global capital market until the debt was brought under control.

Tashtodd · 27/03/2010 08:40

Abetadad: sober reading but true I think.

Do you or does anyone know what would happen to things like Premium Bonds if the UK govt started defaulting on debt? i.e if you wanted to cash them in would they still be repaid on demand where the govt has defaulted elsewhere?

JollyPirate · 27/03/2010 08:34

I have glanced at the link but distrust anything coming for most newspapers - not for nothing is The Telegraph known as The Torygraph for example.

So - some independent comment from you folks who know abpout this stuff would be more believable IYSWIM.

JollyPirate · 27/03/2010 08:31

Okay - all you clever people - please tell me what this will mean for the average person in the street. I am crap at financial type stuff so although I understand that Britain is in a mess financially and we are likely to face cuts that's about it.

Will we be looking at civil unrest for example? Or is that too extreme?

Tashtodd · 27/03/2010 08:31

Elenor:

ABetaDad · 27/03/2010 08:27

What is really frightening is that there is a point at which a country cannot ever repay its debt and we are fast approaching it.

It is well known in economics that when the interst rate on the Govt debt exceeds the rate of economc growth plus inflation default is ineitable. At that point, the interest rate accumulates faster than the nominal growth rate of the country's economy.

Japan is getting close to this as its population is shrinking, it has defltion in prices and its firmsw cannot export because of a strong Yen. Greece is in a similar postion.

It may seem a complicated and arcane point but these grim matematics ar now what is effectively facing the UK. This Labour Govt has taken us to the point that it cannot now raise enough tax from the economy to pay the interest on Govt debt. Public spending has to be cut and to pretend otherwise is a purely cynical, politcal and deeply misguided approach that will damage our country for decades.

If you have a job be prepared to pay a huge amount of tax. If you have a job in the public sector don't count on keeping it. If yu have aprivate sector job be preparedto take a pay cut to keep it. Cuts will have to be severe and deep. If we don't do that the bond markets will force us to by refusing to lend the Govt any more money. Watch Greece go up in flames this summer to see where we are heading. The 1970s Winter of Discontent will look like a picnic in comparison.

ElenorRigby · 27/03/2010 07:59

Tashtodd I read another post and made that comment about theirs, not yours Re: Cameron being too aggressive. Cant remember where, I think maybe on the budget thread. Hope that makes sense

Heaven forfend that a politician speaks with passion, that would suggest that they actually care

Tashtodd · 27/03/2010 07:23

Elenor: Don't understand your comment on my post. My comments do not at all express that I thought Cameron's budget response too agressive. Otherwise totally agree with the rest of your post!

ElenorRigby · 27/03/2010 06:35

Tashtodd wrote:
"It must be difficult for Cameron to face Brown and his morons gurning and joking across the green benches every week without wanting to physically beat the crap out of him for what he's done to us all."
I was amused to find someone commenting on MN that they thought Cameron's response to Darling's budget speech was too aggressive.

I was pleased to see him get angry and slam his hand down. Bloody hell anyone with a modicum of care for this country should bloody angry. FFS I'm a duel national and Im more ffing angry than a lot of natural patriots. Sadly I have noted over the last few years the places where the union jacks are hung out are council estates "great country this, I dont have to work and I have a car, LCD TV, spend my day down the pub...."

I am so angry at what this country has been reduced too. Now thanks to Browns incompetence and profligacy we are staring into an economic abyss

I hope Cameron continues being angry, the country needs someone who actually cares who has the fire and determination to pull us back from that abyss. Whether we like it or not he's our only hope.

Tashtodd · 26/03/2010 18:51

PM you are right this is truly terrifying. I read this article on the train this morning on my way to work. I agree entirely with Randall's sentiments.

The figures are so mind boggling they are beyond the comprehension of many. If there was any justice in this world Nero Brown and his cohorts would be facing criminal charges for the mess that has been created, the full horror of which is being kept from the electorate until all the votes are safely counted.

What a great future my 12 year old has to look forward to with this level of debt round our collective necks. It must be difficult for Cameron to face Brown and his morons gurning and joking across the green benches every week without wanting to physically beat the crap out of him for what he's done to us all.