TORIES

I am actually filled with dread and fear at the thought of a conservative goverment. I remember all to well the hardship the last one created, in 1991 when I bought my first house the interest rates were somehting like 13%, now that sort of fact affects the majority of us so called 'working class' people, the people that are the foundation of this country, and we all know what foundations are for? To hold up the rest of the stucture, in this case it means the people who will vote for these demons, thinking that they are their 'class' and so will be kinder to them, but if you chip away at the solid foundation of a structure until it is all weak and crumbling, then the whole lot comes tumbling down and lay at rubble at your feet. And that is what will happen to our country if it is stupid enough to let a tory goverment take control again.
Labour and Gordon Brown have worked very hard at filling in the cracks in our foundation these last few years, please give them more time, it will be worth it.Of that I'm sure.

mumbot So you are advocating the continuing bankruptcy of the nation and the lower-middle classes because a very small number of people who are rich enough to have tunneled their money away for generations anyway? Tell me, how do you reconcile facts such as Sir Philip Green being an enormous Labour party supporter and yet hiding the money from the sale of BHS etc. in Monaco? The rich will always find a way.

I don't think it's accurate to say they're the party of the wealthy now.

the overwhelming majority of their votes are going to come from middle earners. The truly stinking rich make up such a tiny percentage of the electorate.

It's that cloth caps n clogs 'I could never vote Tory me - my grandfather would turn in his grave' mentality that the Labour party rely on.

Thanks for the 'ffs' skihorse

That's lovely and I'm sure that there are no wealthy people who will benefit from increasing the inheritance tax threshold

No, they are absolutely not the party of the wealthy. They are the party for those willing to take responsibility for themselves - although perhaps the crux of the matter is that only the responsible are able to amass wealth!

Under a Tory government and LA I was able to attend grammar school because I had the brains to do so - admittance to university was also upon merit.

Under old-style educational policies, those who were intelligent were rewarded - now proletariat are paying their own dole via the excuse of tertiary education. All they're doing is getting x amount in to debt and keeping down the unemployment figures.

I have had my education/role/job debased over the course of this government and quite frankly as a family we would have the same quality of life if we were to go on benefits. How can that be right? I wonder how many of the more "wealthy" mn'ers would be up in arms should the benefits class encroach on their lifestyle range?

"I had a good free education under Thatcher."

Your education wasn't free. And it was in spite of Thatcher.

However, as a former Labour voter, I'm in despair politically. The lies and more lies about Iraq are utterly unforgiveable.

But I cannot ever vote Tory. They are and always have been the party for the wealthy.

Hi Mulberrybush.

interesting article, I'm also interested in social care and especially in the area of dignity in old age - so I can appreciate what you're saying.

However, I do think your premise is dodgy. Do you have any evidence to back up idea that "comprehensive long-term planning of the National Care Service" is better than "localism...and the private and voluntary sector"? I'm not sure that's right. I think in many cases the voluntary sector especially, with the right support and encouragement, can really do a better job for less money than the state in many areas.

The big problem for voluntary organisations over the last few years is that many of their traditional spheres of activity have been so encroached on by the state that it's become harder and harder for them to function. They've been hindered by rules and regulations, changes to funding criteria, unnecessary bureaucracy and a "walled garden" approach to local authority funding.

Also, what's wrong with localism? Why should Sunderland need the same solutions as Surbiton? You may say that it's necessary to prevent a postcode lottery, but frankly all that national standards and benchmarks that have been introduced in the NHS haven't stopped a postcode lottery existing there.

The census information was interesting. I have pasted that onto Labour list so that people can have some more accurate information about Mums net.

It has also put me in a really bad mood as I realise I am in the oldest 1% of mumsnet users.

Reading this thread last night, plus some more information about how Conservative cuts are likely to work has prompted me to send a new post to Labourlist
ow.ly/11krX
I think this is something which should be of interest to anyone who does not expect to have an individual income of the equivalent of £30,000 a year by the time they are in their 80s. It should also be of interest to anyone with ageing parents.

There are a couple more posts on there at the moment which are trying to get to grips with some of the different approaches of the parties. At the moment I think it is fair to say that it is all as clear as mud.

We have massive amounts of detail from the Labour government, and the general consensus is that Conservative policy at present is to give as little information as possible about what they might actually intend to do.

lots of people will still go for a pig in a poke of course.

"I shop with Waitrose on benefits "
Peachy, I just had lunch. Cost £1.13 (Soup 52p, noodles 28p, can of Pepsi Max 22p, small cherry bakewell 11p)
Now I know this stuff because money is really tight. We shop at Lidl, Farmfoods and Iceland for the staples. Things we cannot buy at those stores we get from Sainsburys or Tesco. Waitrose aint even on the radar. I went in once and was shocked by how expensive it was.
Funny thing is we are not on benefits apart from CB of course. DP and I bring in over £50K a year.
How is it right that you can afford to shop at Waitrose? Something is seriously wrong.

Middle income earners are being seriously squeezed. It's not right.

Scaryteacher posted the stats that income tax receipts this year are projected to be £140 billion with welfare payments at £160 billion. That is not sustainable especially with trillion pounds debt we are also saddled with. Something has to give.

New Labour have had 13 years and fucked up royally. Lord help me and never ever thought I would say this, I'm gonna give the Tories a chance. They cannot possibly be worse than the shower of $^1t we have in now.

Hang on a minute Manatee - I didn't say I was going to vote Tory, although I might well do.

"What a disgusting sweeping generalisation!!!"

I didn't intend to suggest all BNP supporters used to be Labour. How patronising of you to think I would be so stupid. Of course they are from a mix of backgrounds but you might be more likely to swing that way from a right wing position. (This is also a generalisation but one you would find more palatable.) I was referring to the voters Labour has lost to those parties. Sorry if you find that disgusting but it is a real issue under discussion in the party now (I have a friend who is a speech writer for a prominent Lab MP and he confirmed this is a current concern.)

"Why did you not just take your form into the office? I imagine that would be the Tory response - you have to look after yourself under the Tories."

My form was hand delivered four out of five times - it wasn't lost by Royal Mail - amazingly. It was lost whilst going through the black holes of the system. You have to look after yourself whoever's in power. Isn't that what you are doing by voting Labour? You vote for the party most aligned to what you and your family needs. Right or left. Certainly most posts here use personal examples.

"My mother despaired under Thatcher. I Don't blame her, it was pretty damned hideous."

I had a good free education under Thatcher. I hate what happened to the miners and thier communities. I love what happened to the off milk forced down our throats - that was hideous. One of her successes was getting rid of that misery. Swings and roundabouts like the rest of them.

"Why would the Tories motivate social workers? Why would Labour. SWs have a fucking grim job to do and I think they can only possibly do that job if they care enough to want to, and we should be grateful that they do."

Quite, my problem was that they didn't (in my area at a particular time). I guess you feel SW is a lost cause as far as any govs are concerned since no-one can make it a more appealing job in your opinion.

Thank you Peachy (and I want a Waitrose here grr ). Through your training your DH is going to make the overall situation better - for yourselves and the government!

And yes I also understand completely the idea of having the DC's you can afford. However I think the bigger picture also needs to be seen. We need a system which is more supportive of those trying to work.

See Dh couldn't have done the same amount in evenings- if you'reapplying in workmy experience is there is far less pressure to get a job immediately.

I'd have workfare with set aside time for appliations, but limited and supervised rather than some of the silly apper reading you hear about.

What about aprents etc, wouldn't it possibly be mroe expensive to cover childcare (hardly feasible from benefits) than what you'd gain?

Not picking hokles btw- generally interested in how itwould work. I like the idea, but see so many problems.

Would there be the same rules RE employment law? Am thinking time off for dependents,school closures etc.

Whata bout charities that rely on a young non working aspect of society to fillranks? Would they be able to get volunteers still, or would they be weighed down with related ppaperwork? A good few of our homestart vollies werepeoplegaining experience tore-enter workforce but we couldn't have managed the admin for official status.

Sorry got torun but will read later

And of course acarers are exempt (though a lot of us would like accessto jobcentre support which we cannot get atm)

mumbot Personally I'm thrilled as I've bullied my parents/elderly relatives in to signing it all over to me and any day from May 10th onwards I expect to become a very rich lady. Ffs, really - who is this going to affect?

time off for interviews - b ut like working people, one can do the applications in an evening.

carrots - so would you be OK with their proposal on inheritance tax then?

I don't get why this would be a good thing for our economy right now

Custy a fulldays workfare?

Ama supporter of it generally but I am just thinking of the sheer amounts of timeit took Dh doing applcaitions forlast job (200 interviews it took!). Or would you factor jobsearch time in?

Applauds givescarrotsachance.

"They'll end HIPS so my husband will loose his job"

Hurrah - HIPS are a waste of bloody time and money and the quicker they're gotten rid of, the better.

"They do away with the 15 hours nursery care...all we do is wait for our little un to be 3 so we can just break even each month... but no doubt these evil so and sos will take it away to pay for the w(b)ankers ineptitude"

Says this where? Or just maybe they will make it easier for people to get better jobs, therefore allowing people to have the money to pay for stuff themselves.

"I expect they do away with the trust funds too"

Don't be so bloody stupid. Trust funds are trust funds. I have heard no mention of them stopping the pointless tiny payment given to each new baby and even if they did, so what. Waste of time. Start your own trust fund with your own money if you want one - this is just another Labour bribe to the masses.

"Teachers wages will be frozen ..."

What - like most people in the private sector who have had pay cuts or pay freezes last year due to Labour's incompetence with the economy? Shame.

"Over 60s cold weather payments? Ha! last time they were in Edwina Currie advised them to knit woolly gloves!"

U-huh so that means they'll stop it? I don't think so. And even then, how stupid is a blanket payment to everyone of a certain age no matter whether they need it or not?

"Any tiny power the unions have been able to claw back will go..."

Thank God - the power hungry ignoramuses which run them will have to go back into their holes rather than blackmailing the country with another winter of discontent.

"We'll be back to teaching kids that homosexuality is wrong and if a piece of literature wasn't written by someone dead, white and male it isn't worth reading"

Oh yes, you're right, I saw that on the Tory manisfesto! I'm so glad you pointed this out - I'll be voting Labour now. Jeez - is this supposed to be some kind of high brow, logical persuasive argument or just some stupid scaremongering? Jeeez.

"...if they get in I'm jacking it all in... going to sell the house and live in a caravan... no way am I working on Maggie's farm again!"

Ok. Fine.

"Don't be fooled by all that caring for the family rubbish. All those c** care for is making their own kind richer."

Their own kind being the British People? That's the ones - the people who have been taxed half to death by this crappy bunch of ignorants who have then spent it on nothing and put us all in a great financial hole.

The truth is, no matter who comes in next time they will have a helluva job fixing the appalling mess that this outrageously awful "government" has made of the place.

Bring back the Torys, I say.

ElephantsAndMiasmas "unless you'd like to enlighten me now"

lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+one+nation+conservatism%3F

...consider yourself enlightened...

I think that there should be a greater nursery allowence for the first child. but ir eally think that this is the type of thing that needs to be considered when the parents plan for another child - if they don't plan that's another matter ...they should!

benefits - workfare is my answer - clain jobseekers and go do a full days work for jobseekers allowance and ancillery benefits ( council tax HB etc)

or get a job where you have to work all day and get paid more.

I shop with Waitrose on benefits

they dont charge delivery,and sell more of the special diet things we need,in fact you cansearch by milk free or whatever sowe saveloads by using mainstreamvarieties over specialist foods we might be stuck with elsewhere. I think we spend £10 more a week in Asda as a result, £20 in Sainsburys...amazing difference!

Sorry,complete digression.

Peppa I get your argument: its the one that has persuaded Dh that training is OK.... he could possibly (unlikely, we are in one of top 3 most affect places fromrecession) get a poorly paid job and be a net receiver all his life, or be a receiver for 3 years then be a net giver for the next 30 untilr etirement (has been net giver for past 20 years as well). Makes much more sense for the country the way we are doing it (plus the boys will hopefully learn a lot fromwatching us battle, studying and grafting with an eye on the future rather than immediate results)

I am taking your tone with a pinch of salt Skihorse

I cant say I have ever dreamed of going to the maldives, do not shop with ocado and would not spend more than £10 on a handbag. We do not need to look at our spending thank you - we live modestly.

My argument is not that I expect the public to pay for my nursery fees. However by having that help with nursery now, in the long term I will pay much more than that amount back in taxes. Therefore it makes sense to me to allow parents this support now. At present we get £400 a month ish. I however personally pay £600+ ish in taxes each month. Therefore I am still contributing. This support is short term. Through working I am steadily increasing my income and arguably once the children are in nursery will no longer need this support. I will then most likely be paying £800 - £1000 a month in taxes so the government gets more in the long run.

I am taking your tone with a pinch of salt Skihorse

I cant say I have ever dreamed of going to the maldives, do not shop with ocado and would not spend more than £10 on a handbag. We do not need to look at our spending thank you - we live modestly.

My argument is not that I expect the public to pay for my nursery fees. However by having that help with nursery now, in the long term I will pay much more than that amount back in taxes. Therefore it makes sense to me to allow parents this support now. At present we get £400 a month ish. I however personally pay £600+ ish in taxes each month. Therefore I am still contributing. This support is short term. Through working I am steadily increasing my income and arguably once the children are in nursery will no longer need this support. I will then most likely be paying £800 - £1000 a month in taxes so the government gets more in the long run.

dreamingof is that England or Britain?

Just, I read to day that Wales (where we ar) receives @ £600 less per student than in England,so am wondering whether that is on average orcomapred to the loer expenditure areas?

Dorset has a lot of issues in all areas, rural poverty can certainly be a factor as well (come from Somerset, Bridgwater indeed, so have some experience of that).

IIRC the report on equality yesterday Is aw stated that labour haven't closed the gap and torioes worsended the gap when they were in(I can't remember who said it so apologise if inappropriate, half eye on screen,half on Uni assignment). That suggest tome we need an alternatove but I can't see one- was a LibDem for ages, asked to stand lcoally but whilst I am a great supporter of many of their people and aims locally they were uselessand only exceeded in general awfulnessof attitude towards each other by the Greens (whose social policy I like, but not the actual party and some of the dimwits locally- 'can you comespend all week helping us? @no sorry,am a carer''Oh OK can you send a large donation so we can hire somebody in then?' 'arrghhhhhhhh')).

Absolutely sod all actually manfrom, but unless you'd like to enlighten me now, I will stick to talking about the last 100 years if that's alright. Although I have got an interesting collection of Tory ballads from the 1700s if anyone needs Christmas card ideas?

OP, think it's very funny that your initial rant was obviously taken as a clarion call by all the tories on MN: "Over here, all you wonderful Tories!"