Tory Marriage Tax - makes me feel a bit icky

what planet are you on 'myth' honestly no wonder we are in a state with your supposed myth's, facts are facts, no matter how un PC they maybe

Edited version ;0)

Icky???
I am new to this site so I just give a bit of background.
I am a single mother, raised both my daughters alone with help only from neighbors in the same position, both my daughters are bright hard working, my youngest engaged to be married. my eldest a working single mother. my mother was a single mother who had many partners, never worked a day in her life, excepting illegal activity, 11 children half of us put into care system during 60s/70s, I was taught how to steal, fight, beg, expelled from 3 schools but when I had my children something clicked (79/83), I went to college and worked hard to give them a good loving home. I lived in a council block the majority of which were single parents, but in the past 10 years have watched my community and its spirit dissapear replaced by long term benefit claimers with no intrests at all, gangs of youths, young children unable to play out, ethnic minorities that cant or wont intergrate, NO Labour have had their day trying to please everyone, Lib Dems are of the same ilk. The Tories notably Ian Duncan Smith have spent alot of time researching social cohesion, family life, addiction abuse, and a small part of the research that came out time and time in all communities, (which isnt exactly news to anyone), that marriage, children within marriage provide on the whole a more stable, happier families, community, social cohesion. so the Tories try to encourage marriage and 'would like' to give a marriage tax incentive, this makes you feel ICKY why? Britain needs change, proven practice should be encouraged, the Tories are not saying that Single, Same Sex, Co Habit families are wrong and should be punished in some way, the Tories are saying that marriage has proven social benefit and should be reconised.
And lastly if it is a marriage or any relationship of violence, emotional abuse, fiscal incompetence, get out, single parents are a strong group you will get support and help will be there.
sorry went on but i really cant fathom what is so hard to see and why there is such opposition.

Oh can we please stop repeating this myth that the children of married couples do better than those of single parents because of marriage per se.

In study after study, if you take income out of the equation, you find that all the figures - truancy, criminality, obesity, depression, lack of qualifications, etc. - flatten out.

The single biggest variable in how children do in life, is not whether their parents are married, but how much money their parents have got. And since lone parents are on average much poorer than married parents, their children do worse than the average, NOT because of lack of marriage, but because of lack of money. Where lone parents have the same amount of money as married or cohabiting parents, the outcomes for their children are exactly the same as for their married counterparts.

That's not something most newspaper articles will tell you.

i am a single mother, raised both my daughters alone with help only from neighbors in the same position, both my daughters are bright hard working, my youngest engaged to be married. my eldest a working single mother. my mother was a single mother who had many partners, never worked a day in her life, excepting illegal activity, 11 children half of us put into care system during 60s/70s, i was taught how to steal, fight, beg, expelled from 3 schools but when i had my children something clicked (79/83), i went to college and worked hard to give them a good loving home. i lived in a council block the majority of which were single parents, and in the past 10 years have watched the community and its spirit dissapear replaced by long term benefit claimers, gangs of youths, young children unable to play out, ethnic minorities that cant or wont intergrate, NO Labour have had their day trying to please everyone, Lib Dems are of the same ilk. The Tories notably Ian Duncan Smith have spent alot of time researching social cohesion, family life, addiction abuse, and a small part of that research was, which isnt exactly news to anyone, that marriage, children within marriage provide on the whole a more stable, happier family and community, so the Tories try encourage and want to give tax incentive, makes you feel ICKY why? Britain needs change, good practice should be encouraged, the Tories or not saying that Single, Same Sex, Co Habitors are wrong and should be punished in some way, the Tories are saying that marriage is proven and should be reconised.
And lastly if it is a marriage of violence emotional abuse, fiscal incompetence, get out, single parents are a strong group you will get support and help will be there.
sorry went on but i really cant fathom what is so hard to see.

Get used to the big smuggy billboards, Bumperlicious- that'll be it for the next five years. We'll all have to do Wakey Shakey routines daily in public areas in front of the image of Glorious Leader

...with oatcakes and cheese for sustenance

I nearly bought up my breakfast yesterday when I suddenly came across a large billboard of David Cameron staring down at me. I was pleased when I went past today to see people had taken pot shots at it with snowballs

Riven I adore hamsters. They are my favourite ever small mammal

I would hazard a guess that children don't do better in married families per se but in stable family units- whatever the arrangement of parent/s. That's the key, surely. Cameron and shower are being particularly thick if they think that the fact that people are married essentially makes them stable as a family unit. Surely they're married because they're in a stable relationship, not the other way round. This is just the same old Family Values shite that the Tories like to trot out, surely?

Sorry if this has bin said already. I haven't got time to read this properly, and it's been a looong day

at not being married.

So should a woman stay married to a man who keeps sleeping with other woman? Is it best to show dc that men can walk all over a womans feeling by seelping with other woman and then coming home and sleeping with his wife.

Should those dc keep seeing their mother crying due to the hurt and pain it is causing her?

cause i don't think that is right or proper to allow dc to think that it is reasnable behaviour and actually be taxed on a different level

TBH I would actually pay more tax to be a divorced mother than stay with a shit like that

'Abra1d: the days of parents needing to agree that their adult daughters may enter into marriage are long gone. Is all your thinking based on such out of date concepts? If the Croation cousin chooses to get married, she can. Family hoo-ha it may entail, but then you might think that if she wants to marry but quails in the face of her family she simply hasn't got the determination that any long-term relationship demands.'

My cousin isn't Croatian. Her partner is. His parents are pains in the neck so she doesn't want to be part of their clan (they have 'interesting' (ie, bloody scary) things to say about their Bosnian Muslim and Serb former neighbours, for instance). But she adores him.

Tax doesn't have anything to do with her situation, I was just pointing out that I am aware of some 'good' reasons why some people don't want to get married. I'm puzzled as to why you regard this as such a reactionary position.

"I can't be the only one to know of people who pretend to be single and hide the fact there is a partner living in the house to get better benefits. You can't hide a spouse so you can lose out on money and be put off marriage."

Yes, but that's called being a criminal.

Am loling a little bit (in disbelief) that you're jealous of the easy ride that single parents get. "Let's not get married/share our home, we'll lose out on £2 a week" (or whatever the difference is for the oldest child).

If you stay at home and your partner goes out to work then, as you rightly point out, you save £££ in childcare costs. You're quids in already! You don't need a tax break.

Fossie - Child benefit is a universal and non means tested benefit. I dont understand the link you are making between Child Benefit and being married.

Your husband is not taxed any more than anyone else on his income level. As a family you will be elligible for child tax credits depending on the household income. Why is that unfair to married people?

I think there needs to be some way to address the advantage given to single parents in numerous benefits.

There are financial disadvantages to getting married especially if the couple already each have children. Just one example, two single people get more money in child benefit for their eldest child than younger children but if they marry they can only have one eldest child between them and therefore lose out on a few pounds each week.

I can't be the only one to know of people who pretend to be single and hide the fact there is a partner living in the house to get better benefits. You can't hide a spouse so you can lose out on money and be put off marriage.

I also get annoyed that as a stay-at-home mum my husband gets taxed so much. There was a policy of transferring tax allowance between parents but that went.

If we both worked but only earned the same amount between us we would get a lot more money though we would have to pay for childcare which I have to conclude this government would prefer us to do as it does not trust parents to bring up their children themselves.

pacionfan we will be in the same position if i have two children. i dont class myself as a low earner, but it it seems utterly pointless to work for the fun of it.

but your point is about working parents not married working parents...

and i dont think its the states job to determine one set of parents is more worthy than help than another simply because they stood in front of a minister/registrar and pledged their undying love to each other.

Would love some sort of recoginition for those, like myself, stuck at home while dh works unable to afford childcare. I would be returning to work on a low income, and we are not eligible for tax credits, etc, so returning to work and forking out for childcare in reality means I would work for nothing. For the moment, I have stopped looking at going back to work, it's utterly pointless and depressing.

Shrugs at Otter.

The old version was completely different - DH & I got it in the early years of our marriage. It was an additional allowance which was given to couples who were married. Either husband or wife could have it, or it could be split between them. You could change from one tax year to another how it was allocated.

The new allowance is different from what I understand.

morningpaper I don't follow your logic at all. It wouldn't mean all your money was taxed. But it would mean that if you weren't working, you would have more total income to the house.

Simple sums:

Current situation (fictional limits/tax rates.) Say tax limit is 5k before tax is paid and income tax is 20%

Working spouse earns 20k
Limit is 5k so pays tax on £15k at 20% = £3k tax.
Non-working spouse earns £zero.
Limit is £5k. Pays no tax, as earns nothing.
Total tax bill for household = £3k.
Total income - £5k untaxed income plus £12k of taxed income after tax - £17k

With limit transferance
Working spouse earns 20k
Limit is 10k (£5k own limit plus £5k spouse's limit) so pays tax on £10k at 20% = £2k tax.
Non-working spouse earns £zero and limit has been transferred.
Total tax bill for household = £2k.
Total income - £10k untaxed income plus £8k of taxed income after tax - £18k

When non-working spouse goes back out to work, then they get their limit back. CBA to type all that up now - have to go chase up DD for breakfast.

Simples!

I don't thnk it should necessarily be 'in marriage' btw but it should be related to maternity/paternity/SAHP and maybe that's where the cold feet are coming in wrt to political parties.

I spent years at home earning nothing whilst my tax allowance went to waste.

I sincerely wish I had been able to transfer it to DH.

I didn't want to go out and get a part-time job, any job, just to earn my tax allowance every year. I wanted to look after our child.

DH worked away so it was me or a nursery/childminder/other childcare.

No contest.

I've gone back to work since she started school so it's not like I don't work.

Why shouldn't we have benefited in those years? Why should I have felt pressure to go back to work?

Not sure about this one.

Benefits for marriage in the tax system is one of those things that is completely illogical, yet works. It's like Wikipedia - it only works in practice, not in theory!

In theory there is no reason why unmarried cohabitatees have any less stable relationships than married couples - and of course, there will be countless examples of exceptions in both directions - but the fact is, that in practice, it does seem to work in other countries.

Having said that, surely the priority should be paying down the national debt instead of tax cuts.

...this is a novel thread for me as is first time have ever even mildly disagreed with Riven

We were supposed to be getting married in June-ish this year- after about ten years of generally fannying about...

now we're not keen because David Cameron so obviously wants us to

Ewww. puts me right off

[idiotically bloody minded emoticon]