The Rest is Politics and Alistair Campbell

A clear case based on lies? Seriously, what planet are some people on?

And there is every point debating it, that's how we learn from past mistakes to avoid repeating them.

A clear case based on lies? Seriously, what planet are some people on?

And there is every point debating it, that's how we learn from past mistakes to avoid repeating them.

@SerendipityJane there was most definitely widespread mainstream objections to the Iraq war!

During the main parliamentary vote, 83 Labour MPs defied Prime Minister Tony Blair's three-line whip to vote against the war (with an estimated 139–140 Labour rebels overall across related motions). This marked the largest backbench rebellion of a modern British government.

There was one of the largest protests in British history in London, with estimates ranging from 750,000-1,000,000 people!

There were Conservative party resignations and key figures voted against the war.

Within the Government of the day itself, Robin Cook resigned from the cabinet in protest before the war. He was joined by International Development Secretary Clare Short (who resigned a few weeks later) followed by several junior ministers.

All of this was widely covered by the media at the time. The Daily Mirror ran a particularly aggressive anti-war campaign with bold front-page headlines like "NO WAR," challenging the case for the invasion.

@SerendipityJane there was most definitely widespread mainstream objections to the Iraq war!

During the main parliamentary vote, 83 Labour MPs defied Prime Minister Tony Blair's three-line whip to vote against the war (with an estimated 139–140 Labour rebels overall across related motions). This marked the largest backbench rebellion of a modern British government.

There was one of the largest protests in British history in London, with estimates ranging from 750,000-1,000,000 people!

There were Conservative party resignations and key figures voted against the war.

Within the Government of the day itself, Robin Cook resigned from the cabinet in protest before the war. He was joined by International Development Secretary Clare Short (who resigned a few weeks later) followed by several junior ministers.

All of this was widely covered by the media at the time. The Daily Mirror ran a particularly aggressive anti-war campaign with bold front-page headlines like "NO WAR," challenging the case for the invasion.

I take it you rushed over where I remember the march (that I went on) ?

I didn't say there wasn't widespread opposition. But that opposition wasn't based on the knowledge we now have. It was based on a lot of people not liking the Blair Bush bromance, and a deep cynicism that there was another pretext for the war. But there was no proof that the claim about Saddam (someone who could casually kill tens of thousands before breakfast) having WMDs was not based on fact.

Again, at the time.

What some people are doing, is using hindsight to justify their opposition at the time as being some sort of divine revelation - as if they had secret knowledge the world did not.

I believe there might be a psychological term especially suited to describe for such people.

Information available at the time. Not lies. There’s a difference. Let’s just agree to differ, shall we?

Anyway, moving on . . . .

Oh so when there’s a point you can’t dispute you just want to move on?

Sorry it doesn’t work like that!

A friend who swears by it recommended The Rest is Politics to me. I gave it a listen but found it very myopic in its outlook, the presenter smarmy and condescending, and unable to see the wider picture past the presenters own political beliefs and bias. And I can't condone listening to someone with such a bad judgement that they took the UK into an unnecessary war.

I now regularly listen to Planet Normal with Liam Hallighan and Allison Pearson. They cover some difficult subjects that other news outlets don't seem to want to touch, and it gives good balance on a number of issues we only tend to ever hear one side of. Give it a go, you don't have to agree with everything or all the guests, but it's refreshing none the less.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/planet-normal/id1514949294

Why do you think The Rest is Politics is so popular? And how did everyone forgive Alistair Campbell for his role in the Iraq war?

I did enjoy it to begin with - for political gossip and Rory’s experience of travelling and working abroad and in government. But over time I have found them unbearably, insufferably smug, and their take on women’s issues gives me rage. Laughing about how useless they are at home, what selfish dads and partners they are / were, then utterly it as an issue.

I didn’t march against the Iraq war, wasn’t in the UK at the time. But Campbell was utterly loathed by many for his role in it. How has he been so thoroughly redeemed? They are topping the podcast charts, filling huge venues and making an absolutely fortune. What’s the appeal?

@Amythomas , how on earth can you say Allison Pearson (of all people) and Liam Hallighan (business and economics correspondent for The Telegraph) give a good political balance? They are both so far right wing they are almost into Fa- rage territory.

It was America that took us to war, our politicians simply went along with it. Nothing changes really so don't blame this man

It was America that took us to war, our politicians simply went along with it. Nothing changes really so don't blame this man

I was just following orders said the prison guard at the concentration camp.

The UK government took its own decision to follow the US into war. They didn't have to follow, some European countries supported the war some didn't.

I've always thought Blair really believed it was the right thing to do and the information machine around him set to work. Campbell was key to making the story around the case for the war and he wasn't pussyfooting around in his dealings with people inside or outside of government. There have been multiple reports about the information which was available and its variance with the spun stories produced. The comparison of Campbell with Cummings was a good one - both had far more influence and power over their governments than any unelected person should have.

This latterday reformed alcoholic, terribly reasonable persona, is a good schtick and has made a fuck ton of money for the pair of them but leopards don't change their spots. I find the both presenters smug and self satisfied and agree with pp - the casual dismissal and language used around women and children who were trafficked was disgusting. As with Cameron's "calm down dear" - its the casual comments which are often more revealing than the curated persona.

I agree TRIH is a much better choice if you want presenters coming from different political perspectives discussing topics which are very relevant to modern politics, even if they are not recent.

@Amythomas , how on earth can you say Allison Pearson (of all people) and Liam Hallighan (business and economics correspondent for The Telegraph) give a good political balance? They are both so far right wing they are almost into Fa- rage territory.

Isn't it lovely that we have people on here with their minds so firmly stuck up themselves that they won't even entertain someone challenging their own entrenched beliefs, perhaps learning something in the process, and at the very least hearing both sides of an argument.

But I guess if you already know everything, and you are so certain that you are more of an expert on everything than anyone else, then no need I guess.

This is nonsense. Challenging your own “entrenched views” does not mean entertaining any voice that has a different view. For example, I wouldn’t sit and have a conversation with the Reform Councillors who referred to their non white constituents as parasites, or were sniffing the seats of women. I wouldn’t ask Stephen Miller why he believes in the Replacement theory and wants to rid the USA of all immigrants.

Pearson has said and done some hideous things. A “free speech” absolutist, she goes after people who disagree with her publicly, using her platform to bully and harass people. “You’re finished.” she wrote to a guy who had challenged her motivations for all the anti-Covid conspiracy theories and misinformation she was posting (remember when she tweeted that she hoped her son and all of his student friends got covid?) She encouraged her followers to find out where he worked and threatened to contact his employer, she threatened to sue him, all over a tweet that was up for so little time, nobody was even able to screenshot it. The guy apologised to her immediately and implored her to not ruin his life. This is not somebody who is capable of having a good faith debate about the nuances of both sides of an argument. Me listening to anything she has to say will not enhance my understanding of any alternative point of view to mine. I can say this with absolute certainty because the vast majority of what she says is false, misinformation based on fantasy.

This is nonsense. Challenging your own “entrenched views” does not mean entertaining any voice that has a different view. For example, I wouldn’t sit and have a conversation with the Reform Councillors who referred to their non white constituents as parasites, or were sniffing the seats of women. I wouldn’t ask Stephen Miller why he believes in the Replacement theory and wants to rid the USA of all immigrants.

Pearson has said and done some hideous things. A “free speech” absolutist, she goes after people who disagree with her publicly, using her platform to bully and harass people. “You’re finished.” she wrote to a guy who had challenged her motivations for all the anti-Covid conspiracy theories and misinformation she was posting (remember when she tweeted that she hoped her son and all of his student friends got covid?) She encouraged her followers to find out where he worked and threatened to contact his employer, she threatened to sue him, all over a tweet that was up for so little time, nobody was even able to screenshot it. The guy apologised to her immediately and implored her to not ruin his life. This is not somebody who is capable of having a good faith debate about the nuances of both sides of an argument. Me listening to anything she has to say will not enhance my understanding of any alternative point of view to mine. I can say this with absolute certainty because the vast majority of what she says is false, misinformation based on fantasy.