The Rest is Politics and Alistair Campbell

@SerendipityJane you said that there was not widespread political opposition. I don't know how much more clearly I can demonstrate that there was!

In addition to the mass opposition in the UK, there were mass marches in plenty of other countries too.

The events of 15 February 2003 were recorded as the largest protest of its type in human history.

Some of the largest protests took place in Europe. In Rome in Italy, around three million people were involved in a protest that entered the Guinness Book of Records. Thousands took part in a demonstration in the Turkish capital of Istanbul, despite local authorities having banned the protest.

I'm not using hindsight, I'm using historical facts!

I take it you rushed over where I remember the march (that I went on) ?

I didn't say there wasn't widespread opposition. But that opposition wasn't based on the knowledge we now have. It was based on a lot of people not liking the Blair Bush bromance, and a deep cynicism that there was another pretext for the war. But there was no proof that the claim about Saddam (someone who could casually kill tens of thousands before breakfast) having WMDs was not based on fact.

Again, at the time.

What some people are doing, is using hindsight to justify their opposition at the time as being some sort of divine revelation - as if they had secret knowledge the world did not.

I believe there might be a psychological term especially suited to describe for such people.

@Amythomas I prefer to think that people forget. It is over 20 years ago now. To be honest if I hadn't felt so strongly opposed to it, I may have forgotten too!

My partner at the time did a tour in Iraq and then two in Afghanistan, which does tend to etch them in the mind.

Simply no point debating or reasoning with some people. Especially when their fringe opinions, ideology, and questionable morals override any evidence presented to them.

I'm all for free debate, but I think that some people have shown enough now that I think we can discount their warped opinions going forward. Perhaps just humour them, and then move on. I truly think the world would be a better place without such people who put their politics and ideology before the sanctity of human life, and before their compassion for others.

I believe there might be a psychological term especially suited to describe for such people.

@SerendipityJane there was most definitely widespread mainstream objections to the Iraq war!

During the main parliamentary vote, 83 Labour MPs defied Prime Minister Tony Blair's three-line whip to vote against the war (with an estimated 139–140 Labour rebels overall across related motions). This marked the largest backbench rebellion of a modern British government.

There was one of the largest protests in British history in London, with estimates ranging from 750,000-1,000,000 people!

There were Conservative party resignations and key figures voted against the war.

Within the Government of the day itself, Robin Cook resigned from the cabinet in protest before the war. He was joined by International Development Secretary Clare Short (who resigned a few weeks later) followed by several junior ministers.

All of this was widely covered by the media at the time. The Daily Mirror ran a particularly aggressive anti-war campaign with bold front-page headlines like "NO WAR," challenging the case for the invasion.

Well I agree with BIossomtoes

You are pushing a stone uphill if you want to suggest that every poll was rigged and every politician involved in some sort of massive conspiracy.

Obviously subsequent revelations showed that things were not as they may have seemed.

It's all moot anyway - as facts show there was no mainstream or popular opposition to the war politically - despite the Stop the War March.

Information available at the time. Not lies. There’s a difference. Let’s just agree to differ, shall we?

A clear case based on lies? Seriously, what planet are some people on?

And there is every point debating it, that's how we learn from past mistakes to avoid repeating them.

I think there was a clear case for war at the time. The fact that it had cross party support is evidence of that. Anyway it’s pretty pointless debating it 23 years after the event given that time travel is impossible.

It's irritating how AC enjoys putting himself across as the liberal nice guy and patting himself on the back.

I remember the reporter Andrew Gilligan on the BBC Radio 4 Today programme reporting that the government had “sexed up” the dodgy dossier about the risk posed by former Iraqi WMDs. I remember being at the demonstration in Hyde Park against the war. I remember the mysterious suicide of David Kelly. I remember Gilligan being forced to resign after a judicial inquiry criticized his reporting. I remember for years after, right wing apologists for the war saying, there might not have been WMDs, but it was worthwhile because the war got rid of dictator Saddam Hussein. That was before the collective amnesia, until it became politically expedient to be against the war.

I think all the evidence, despite his recent reincarnation as a popular podcast host, and any whitewash of an enquiry, paints Alistair Campbell as a rather nasty piece of work.

And anyone trying to defend him, or his abhorrent actions whilst influencing government decisions, is probably someone who has similar values, and is most likely also a rather nasty piece of work.

Except there wasn't a clear case for war was there as all of the information concocted from the top down to sway the public and back bench politicians has been proven to be a basket of lies and deceit.

David Kelly's family blame Alistair Campbell for the pressure leading to his death particularly by leaking his name to the media, although Alistair Campbell was officially cleared at the enquiry.

Campbell does seem to have reinvented himself from the days when he was the real-life inspiration behind Malcolm Tucker in The Thick Of It. I used to work for a large public broadcaster and I well remember those days. I recall standing next to a senior journalist while he took a call from Campbell minutes after a news bulletin had gone out. I couldn't hear every word leaking from the phone handset but he was shouting loudly enough for me to pick up "What the FUCK was that SHITE you just put out on the One?" Plus threats to go above his head & basically get the guy sacked from his job. I think this was par for the course for AC back then. He was utterly toxic. Now, most journalists have pretty thick skins - thank goodness - and most of them just held the phone a few inches away so they could tell when he'd finished.

But since those days we've heard a lot more about his problems with alcohol & depression. We're invited to feel sorry for him. Indeed, not very long ago that public broadcaster invited AC to address its Newsroom staff on the question of mental health. Now, if I'd ever heard him even once apologise for the disgusting way he dealt with people, I might have been able to hear this without shouting, oh yes! That's a great idea! Get the fucker who's probably caused more mental ill-health among journalists than anyone to come in and talk to them, many of them victims of his OTT rage attacks, about how to survive it!! Irony died. I had, and continue to have, no time whatsoever for this self-regarding, abusive asshole. Rory Stewart I rather like. If he got himself another podcast partner...

I think from recollection the country hadn't at that time become jaded about regime change war and trusted the government. So as the government said we should go to War most people thought initially it would be for the right reasons and it would be successful and lead to a good outcomd. And Saddam had announced he had WMD. Information about the dodgy dossier and David Kelly obviously started emerging and then more people started realising it wasn't perhaps what they had assumed at the start. Thats my memory of it only tbough.

I want to like TRIP but I just can’t. Every time I try after 10 mins I say nope to this and turn to TRIPUS, TRIH or The Rest Is Entertainment. All of which are much more enjoyable and informative without being smug and condescending. Sometimes Triggernometry. Like is too short to listen to podcasts you don’t enjoy.

I only listen occasionally now for many of the reasons stated above. I particularly dislike their 'questions' episode where the standard behaviour is that Rory Stewart repeats the question at great length, but never actually addresses it, then says "..over to you", which is a cue for Alistair Campbell to tell an unrelated anecdote about Tony Blair.

And, but maybe this should go to pedants' corner, there are other adjectives (or adjectival phrases) than "very very".

The Iraq war was more popular than Brexit. 😱

The fact that there was agreement from other parties to go to war, doesn't make any difference to how I feel. I agreed with those ministers who resigned at the time. I remember it well.

I respect that you feel differently and felt there was a clear case for war.

Book marking to read properly as I love podcasts.
Alastair is complicated. I have the same reservations as many pp.
The recent episode on persevilience was excellent though.
Love trip USA, Newsagents.
My absolute favourite is
PodSaveAmerica. I now know too much about White House staffing and the midterms, but worth listening to for their passion expertise and humanity. The episode when Charlie Kirk (not politically aligned) was shot was one of the most thoughtful moving pieces I’ve ever heard.

See the post above yours.

As do all inquiries. The Covid inquiry is doing just that as we speak, yet I doubt many will give the Tories the benefit of hindsight.

Blair had plenty of information at the time that there were doubts. He lost several ministers over it. He went along with Bush regardless. That was documented at the time. No hindsight involved.

The war that the majority of people in the country supported. Poll at the time had 54% of the public in favour of war vs 38% against.
yougov.com/en-gb/articles/12483-remembering-iraq
In the Commons vote the LibDems were against the war (wanting a UN resolution), with the Labour and the Conservatives parties in favour (85 Labour MPs and 3 Conservatives defied their parties and voted against the war).
www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-18&house=commons&number=118

Sorry for being repetitive in remembering recent history and the collective amnesia of the British public. Sometimes I feel like Benjamin the donkey in Animal Farm.

Triggernometry has some really interesting guests who get properly challenged on their views, whether left or right leaning. And the presenters often talk a lot of common sense.