What do with think will be in Labour’s budget?

So it DOES unlock additional benefit of housing benefits. Currently 1.5 million pensioners are renting and it's forecast that a third of pensioners will be renting in around 15 years' time. So it's a very significant number of people.

It doesn’t unlock anything that someone on a full state pension doesn’t get. Everyone gets a bus pass, free prescriptions, etc. They may get housing benefit but most pensioners don’t have housing costs anyway as they own their homes outright.

That's exactly the kind of thing that need reform as it is driving detrimental behaviour patterns.

The irony is that someone pension tax credit can be significantly better off due the other benefits it can unlock.

NIC has morphed into just another tax when the additional earnings linking was introduced. Originally it was a fixed sum regardless of income. Then it morphed into a tax when it became income related - when you pay more but get no additional benefit for paying more - i.e. a tax.

There are also loads of people who've barely paid any NIC but still qualify for state pension, i.e. low earners, unemployed & other benefits, etc.

It's why I keep saying we need to scrap NIC and raise income tax instead.

Uh huh.

Take a break, go for a run or a long walk - it will do you the world of good.

It was pastiche.

@Badbadbunny

Entitlement to state pension is based on the number of qualifying years a person has paid NIC. Currently, to receive the maximum state pension 35 years of contributions are required.

I had made 35 years of contribution by time I was 56. My retirement age is 67. So, for 11 years I will pay NIC, but my state pension will be the same as if I had not. As per last year’s P60, I paid £5560 in NIC.

The reason pensioners don’t pay NIC is that they are drawing a pension paid for by NIC when they were working.

Regards savings and ISAs, those who have worked all their lives will likely have more than younger people who have not yet worked all their lives. It’s called saving.

Break out the hard data.

It’s really not a high number in any case. Economically inactive are high majority no or low tax payers. Even with that minority of early retirees, they’re a minority in high tax group anyway.

I explicitly wrote: No country has it all. But of those similar to us I like elements of:

Pretty sure it would be difficult to interpret that as I would like to replicate x country wholesale.

UK is 27th

Tells us where we rank not now well taxes are spent, whether we get good value or what they do to productivity or growth.

So it looks like Switzerland is your optimum.

No. The optimum would be be policies which create the conditions Beveridge described:

The State in organising security should not stifle incentive, opportunity, responsibility; in establishing a national minimum, it should leave room and encouragement for voluntary action by each individual to provide more than that minimum for himself and his family.

William Beveridge

That is not the same as letting large corporates and billionaires run amok.

Apparently not. You can bet your bottom dollar they’ll change their tune when they are.

@TemperanceWest

Who is attacking pensioners? Not me.

My post was not directed at any specific poster, but a general question. Pensioners seem to be blamed for a lot.

Do those that do the blaming not realise they will be pensioners too one day?

My post was ironic. Pensioners are the most attacked group on MN.

It's not "attacking" pensioners. With tax, it's about fairness and parity. Pensioners are paying less in tax on the same incomes as workers due to being NIC exempt, and yes, NIC is just another tax.

It's also typically pensioners who can make use of the additional personal savings allowance giving them an extra £5k exemption for bank interest received - pensioners are more likely to benefit from this because they're more likely to have substantial savings. Likewise it's pensioners who are more likely to have hundreds of thousands invested in ISAs than younger workers.

Where are the "special" tax reliefs for workers - you know, the people we need to encourage to work more, produce more, earn more, etc?

It's also not "attacking" pensioners to query why millionaire pensioners don't have their benefits means tested, i.e. not just state pension, but disability pensions, carers allowance, free prescriptions, free bus passes, etc - they are in a better position to pay and not draw benefits than the majority of younger workers.

@TemperanceWest

It includes people who are accessing their private pension but are not yet at state pension age. It is people who are NOT seeking work btw.

Okay, that might explain Andrew Niels figure of 6.7 million economic inactive figure he gave on BBC QT 24 September 2026.

There’s a breakdown anyway. 80 to 85% are little to no tax group.

Only a small proportion of early retirees pay high tax in any case.

Who is attacking pensioners? Not me.

Why are pensioners attacked so often? If people have paid into a private pension scheme and sufficient national insurance contributions, why are they not entitled to receive an income?

Regards millionaire pensioners, it’s estimated that 22% of pensioner are from households whose assets exceed £1 million. Assets of course includes property.

It includes people who are accessing their private pension but are not yet at state pension age. It is people who are NOT seeking work btw.

Economic inactivity

"People not in employment who have not been seeking work within the last 4 weeks and/or are unable to start work within the next 2 weeks"

They may be contributing in other ways, providing child care so parents can go out to work, they may be unpaid carers to friends or family, saving the state money, volunteering etc.

@TemperanceWest

The ONS figure of 9 million economic inactive people does not include pensioners, but those who are not in employment and have been seeking work.

The tax payers are a low amount anyway.

According to data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS), approximately 9.12 million people aged 16 to 64 in the UK are currently economically inactive. 1]

A breakdown of this population reveals why the proportion paying substantial tax is so low:
The "Little-to-No Tax" Group (~80%–85%)

Some may have a private pension they are paying income tax on. Some benefits are taxable too. Interest on savings is taxable if not in an ISA.

A tiny proportion and if their income is from pensions, they're paying less tax than workers on the same income because they're not paying NIC!