Reform lost 6 by elections this week 🎉

It’s not often I agree with Owen Jones but …

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/oct/19/reform-itv-hate-preachers-far-right-extremism-nigel-farage

Because the OP actually attacked “the right-wing vote”. (And the apparently left-leaning OP never returned, unless she has a burner account, which is generally regarded as ultra-plopping.)

The discussion I’ve had has been about the ECHR and whether Putin is left- or right-wing. I did point out that Labour lost control of a council very recently because its councillor was charged with fraud, but that was a comment aimed at the dishonest shambles that is Labour, not the cow pat that is Reform.

Anyway, this is more than your impertinent question deserves.

Come on, be fair. She said it speaks for itself. It does. And she’s made no attempt to defend any of it. Unlike the poster who’s filled the bingo card.

If you are not here to attack Reform’s dodgy funding, polling deceit, racism... why are you on a thread about such things if not to defend them?

Regularly airing Reform's deficiencies can't do any harm, though. But you have always been clear on your dislike of them, which I respect.

Unfortunately the one who’s been hammering away on this thread for days doesn’t appear to share your view. It’s encouraging to see a different perspective.

Well, this Tory definitely is not. I shall be very pleased to see the back of Reform, which I have every faith will happen in the next five years.

I don’t feel the need to attack Reform’s dodgy funding, polling deceit, racism and general foolishness. It speaks for itself. But that doesn’t mean that I defend them. I suspect there are quite a few Tories on MN who take the same view.

Same here. This should be an open goal for the Conservatives. Unfortunately their supporters on Mnet are defending Reform.🤦‍♀️

But Reform defenders are not putting people off voting for Reform.

I don't doubt Bogdanor's credentials, but 'changed modern Britain ' is value neutral, ergo doesn't mean 'made things better'.

Going back to my earlier point, you agreed that your position was in line with my perception. Ideological purity or bust. By that logic, Kemi Badenoch should not have spoken out against Reform, because she served under Boris Johnson of the letterboxes and watermelon smiles.

Either the rules apply to all politicians, or they don't apply at all and everyone is allowed to criticise. Which is it?

Ok what about Vernon Bogdanor? He chose 3 politicians on the left and 3 on the right. And hes an academic. Have a look. It does add some nuance.

Enoch Powell was the one who went on about the black man having the whip hand over the white man. That's not only hideously racist, it's also an early example of the great replacement conspiracy. If this is someone you want to make excuses for, fill your boots.

Simon Heffer is a hardcore Conservative. I am not at all surprised that he would whitewash Powell. Or that you would quote him.

Why don't you address your comments about me to me rather than being a mean girl. Although you only seem to be commenting on my style of posts personally so maybe it would be a waste of time.

I suggest you read Simon Heffers book if you want to actually judge someone fairly. Research him properly and then decide. Rather than make assumptions about people.

Theres also a good new book by Vernon Bogdanor regarding six politicians that changed modern Britain without becoming PM. Farage and Powell together with Keith Joseph are on the right. Bevan, Roy Jenkins and Tony Benn are on the left. Its really interesting.

I think that sums things up correctly.

Simon Heffer wrote an interesting recent book regarding Enoch Powell which was nuanced and sensitive. His unfortunate choice of words "rivers of blood" using classical literature that wasnt recognised by many people was his undoing. I suggest you read it if youre interested in judging people fairly. If you aren't then don't, of course.

Its a good example of how a sound bite taken out of the context of the actual message can contribute to someone's undoing. Eg letterboxes, national security/social security , island of strangers etc.

In the case of Enoch Powell I wonder why MNHQ deletes certain manipulations of the surname"Badenoch" if he wasn't problematic? Perhaps @Pineneedlesincarpet should let them know Enoch was an OK chap really.

Agree tho' quite a lot doesn't make sense anyway

They just seem to like arguing the toss ad infinitum

Im not defending Reform. I'm trying to get the conversation (unsuccessfully) away from everyone repetitively saying "reform are all racist and misogynistic and if you vote for them you are too!"

Surely much more interesting to look at why they are so popular. And how their supporters will react to the revelations. And whether Reform are unique in having racist members or whether this is a problem in other parties. Amd whether they are treated fairly given Dominic Cummings prediction. I don't know.

I havent told other people not to post. Ive just defended myself when I have been criticised for posting about various things of interest to me.

It’s beyond me that a Tory voter, whose leader has been at great pains to distance her party from Reform, should spend hours defending them. It doesn’t make any sense to me.

Benefit from people being put off Reform.

Some seem frightened that a decline in Reform support will mean a boost for Labour, so want to distract from the documentary.
You'd think Conservative voters would be delighted at anything that discredits Reform. Unless they really have thrown in the towel and think their only chance of any sort of power for their party is riding Farage's coat tails.

The Great Replacement theory and the Kalergi plan both featured in the ITV Undercover Reform documentary

@Traveller1987

Perhaps if Islamists were more tolerant of our Western way of life, e.g. by integrating properly into society instead of turning whole swathes of our cities into litter-strewn no-go areas for white British people, by allowing homosexuals and women to have full rights in society, ...

Are you seriously suggesting that white British people wouldn't want homosexuals and women to have full rights in society?!

Pot and kettle spring to mind with this.