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Is changing donation laws for Reform retrospectively unfair or politically justified?

455 replies

Gav1961 · 15/09/2026 08:19

I wonder if others have a view on this:

I should start by saying I am no supporter of the Reform Party… not by any measure… but it sometimes we all have a right and indeed a duty to speak up when we see injustice. Even when done to those we might dislike. An old-fashioned notion I know, but a valuable one none the less.

So… The Labour party (temporality constituting the government) , who have received tens of millions of pounds from union member subscriptions over the years… so effectively from one body… have decided that whilst the massive donations to Reform are currently legal, they, the labour government with the approval of all the other parties, will make the receipt of such currently legal gifts, retrospectively illegal.

Mmmm…

Last month I saw that same government protest that the convicted ringleader of the Rochdale grooming gang, cannot be sent back to Pakistan when he is released from prison… because any law made to do this could not be retrospective…. It just would not be British.

OK I have my disagreements and issues with Reform… but does a legitimate UK political party really deserve to be treated worse than a convicted gang leader of groomers?

Anyone else see that as a bit odd, a bit contradictory, a bit self-serving… unconstitutional and illogical? Come on, don’t be shy… it’s just an opinion.

Funny thing is that whilst the cash would undoubtably have helped reform in its bit to run the UK there is one thing that would be more effective in swelling its ranks…. That is a blatantly unfair and self-serving retrospective law hamstringing their attempts to grow.

For anyone who doubts the unintended effects of grossly and manifestly unfair treatment of a one group over another (regardless of its actual merit)… study internment in N Ireland. The single most effective recruited campaign for any organisation… ever. But then not one had at the time tried to bribe the voting public with £5000 dollars each… 😊

People do not like unfairness. I would go so far as to say that Labour are walking into a trap… So predictable was this reaction. Think about it… maybe these guys never thought their £36m was at risk… or am I now getting a little conspiracy theorist?

What are the strategists thinking? Apart from being unfair, non-democratic and blatantly self-serving… There could be no better way to swell the ranks of Reform. The very thing they want to avoid.

OP posts:
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MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:58

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:46

Like pretty much all posts on here it’s mostly opinions. If someone asks questions I might answer but some I avoid as it’s not worth it.

I’m not sorting through stuff to list people, so take or leave my posts knowing that’s the case. I really don’t mind if you scroll past entirely and ask others for lists.

Yes, I understand that most of your own posts are just opinions. Thankfully, there are some really well informed posters on MN who are able to evidence their points much more effectively, and that makes for an infinitely more interesting and purposeful debate.

Thank you for acknowledging that you avoid some - I would suggest many - of the questions that are posed to you by other posters. The reasons for your avoidance are clear. And as I said, it's fine to avoid questions which you are unwilling and/or unable to answer, as your participation in the discussion is entirely voluntary. What you don't get to do is insist that I scroll on without at least asking you to justify the claims that you are making. It is your right to evade, but it is my right to challenge any unevidenced claims that you may make.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:56

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:55

Evidently so.

If you quote data - it’s rubbished.
If you quote the ‘wrong media’ - it’s rubbished.

etc etc

Yep it’s fairly pointless the same posters have already decided.

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:55

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:54

Does everyone need a disclaimer now ;

Evidently so.

If you quote data - it’s rubbished.
If you quote the ‘wrong media’ - it’s rubbished.

etc etc

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:54

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:53

Here goes.

I think Healey is a duplicitous POS. To have the temerity to deliver Starmer’s coup de grace by resigning, over concerns on defence spending, only to back greater welfare spending is galling beyond belief.

Just my opinion you understand.

Edited

Does everyone need a disclaimer now ;

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:53

Here goes.

I think Healey is a duplicitous POS. To have the temerity to deliver Starmer’s coup de grace by resigning, over concerns on defence spending, only to back greater welfare spending is galling beyond belief.

Just my opinion you understand.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:52

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:47

You would like to be free to unsubstantiated opinions without ever being challenged to back them up? Yes, I can understand why that might be appealing to posters who like to be a bit creative in their assertions.

Unfortunately, that approach doesn't work for me because I am not happy to leave the unsubstantiated opinions masquerading as facts unchallenged.

Yes it’s a chat forum. Not a radio / HoL transcription service.

If you don’t like it just ignore or ask someone else.

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:47

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:37

Ok great. Let’s go back to the earlier suggestion where you don’t read anything not substantiated. That was a good one.

You would like to be free to unsubstantiated opinions without ever being challenged to back them up? Yes, I can understand why that might be appealing to posters who like to be a bit creative in their assertions.

Unfortunately, that approach doesn't work for me because I am not happy to leave the unsubstantiated opinions masquerading as facts unchallenged.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:46

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:42

Opinions are fine, as long as they are presented as such. The problem arises when opinions are presented as facts. Inevitably, people will ask for evidence to back up unsubstantiated claims that look a bit suspect. That is part of normal debate and discussion, and it's very common both on MN and on most other discussion forums.

Of course, you don't have to respond to anyone's questions if you don't want to. Responding to posts on MN is entirely optional. But inevitably, if you present opinions as fact and then evade requests to back them up, then people may tend to become rather dismissive of what you say because unfounded opinions don't have that much value.

Like pretty much all posts on here it’s mostly opinions. If someone asks questions I might answer but some I avoid as it’s not worth it.

I’m not sorting through stuff to list people, so take or leave my posts knowing that’s the case. I really don’t mind if you scroll past entirely and ask others for lists.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:42

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:28

Are you aware chat forums are opinions? Plus there’s a link below to the HoL for all those jumping in wanting a transcript in addition to the radio one.

Opinions are fine, as long as they are presented as such. The problem arises when opinions are presented as facts. Inevitably, people will ask for evidence to back up unsubstantiated claims that look a bit suspect. That is part of normal debate and discussion, and it's very common both on MN and on most other discussion forums.

Of course, you don't have to respond to anyone's questions if you don't want to. Responding to posts on MN is entirely optional. But inevitably, if you present opinions as fact and then evade requests to back them up, then people may tend to become rather dismissive of what you say because unfounded opinions don't have that much value.

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 16:38

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:37

Ok great. Let’s go back to the earlier suggestion where you don’t read anything not substantiated. That was a good one.

Excellent riposte.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:37

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:33

Oh, I know. I do absolutely recognise it as a longstanding modus operandi for some. It is a strategy, of sorts, though not a terribly effective one in my view.

I'm not expecting to get any answers because I don't actually think there are any, but sometimes I feel that it's worth pursuing the point if only to highlight the repeated pattern of making unsubstantiated claims and then evading perfectly reasonable requests for evidence to back up those claims. Apologies if it details the discussion somewhat, I just don't like to see people making all manner of claims with no accountability.

Ok great. Let’s go back to the earlier suggestion where you don’t read anything not substantiated. That was a good one.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:35

TopPocketFind · 16/09/2026 16:30

A quick check didn't bring up anything about an exemption for Labour, maybe you misheard what was said on the radio?

I’ve already posted that scroll back. Rayner answering on unions. Reynolds said the same.

They didn’t reply with yes it’ll be the same for unions, but that unions are different.

Ik you see that as certainty for it not happening, I disagree. Saying yes they’ll be subject to the same would indicate that certainty.

As for everyone jumping in it’s great to see the usual, but you can talk to each other too. I’m sure my views aren’t that central.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:34

TemperanceWest · 16/09/2026 16:30

I don't think it is @BIossomtoes MO. Many of us have mentioned that your posts often fail to answer the question asked. Often there is deflection or mirroring of posts instead.

Yes, this is what I have observed. It is a very well practised technique.

SheilaFentiman · 16/09/2026 16:33

Chat forums are opinions, but if a poster mentions - in support of their opinion - that X and Y has been said by someone/in some media, are you aware that it's common for other posters to follow up on those references?

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:33

BIossomtoes · 16/09/2026 16:25

You won’t get anywhere. The refusal to substantiate claims has always been the modus operandi.

Oh, I know. I do absolutely recognise it as a longstanding modus operandi for some. It is a strategy, of sorts, though not a terribly effective one in my view.

I'm not expecting to get any answers because I don't actually think there are any, but sometimes I feel that it's worth pursuing the point if only to highlight the repeated pattern of making unsubstantiated claims and then evading perfectly reasonable requests for evidence to back up those claims. Apologies if it details the discussion somewhat, I just don't like to see people making all manner of claims with no accountability.

TopPocketFind · 16/09/2026 16:30

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:28

Are you aware chat forums are opinions? Plus there’s a link below to the HoL for all those jumping in wanting a transcript in addition to the radio one.

A quick check didn't bring up anything about an exemption for Labour, maybe you misheard what was said on the radio?

TemperanceWest · 16/09/2026 16:30

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:26

And this is yours.

I don't think it is @BIossomtoes MO. Many of us have mentioned that your posts often fail to answer the question asked. Often there is deflection or mirroring of posts instead.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:28

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:27

Yes. Hence the need to challenge them and ask for evidence. Often, there is no evidence forthcoming.

Are you aware chat forums are opinions? Plus there’s a link below to the HoL for all those jumping in wanting a transcript in addition to the radio one.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:27

Greyrock79 · 16/09/2026 15:56

MN threads are full of assumptions - check it out.

Yes. Hence the need to challenge them and ask for evidence. Often, there is no evidence forthcoming.

SheilaFentiman · 16/09/2026 16:27

BIossomtoes · 16/09/2026 16:25

You won’t get anywhere. The refusal to substantiate claims has always been the modus operandi.

100% this.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:26

BIossomtoes · 16/09/2026 16:25

You won’t get anywhere. The refusal to substantiate claims has always been the modus operandi.

And this is yours.

BIossomtoes · 16/09/2026 16:25

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:20

You misunderstand.

I'm not asking you to do my admin for me. I'm asking you to substantiate your own claims with solid evidence. This is entirely reasonable in a discussion where unevidenced claims are made.

As you're unwilling and/or unable to provide any evidence to support your claims, I will treat your earlier statement as just an assumption on your part, rather than a statement of fact.

If you could make a point of distinguishing between facts and unevidenced opinions in future, then I won't need to trouble you with so many requests for evidence.

You won’t get anywhere. The refusal to substantiate claims has always been the modus operandi.

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:21

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:20

You misunderstand.

I'm not asking you to do my admin for me. I'm asking you to substantiate your own claims with solid evidence. This is entirely reasonable in a discussion where unevidenced claims are made.

As you're unwilling and/or unable to provide any evidence to support your claims, I will treat your earlier statement as just an assumption on your part, rather than a statement of fact.

If you could make a point of distinguishing between facts and unevidenced opinions in future, then I won't need to trouble you with so many requests for evidence.

Ok as before. No I’m not doing the stuff you ask so if you want to scroll on by then feel free to.

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 16/09/2026 16:20

EasternStandard · 16/09/2026 16:07

You do ask a lot for someone not working for you ;

No I cannot do this. But there’s probably a record of the HoL debate you can access.

They are only at the debating stage, you’ll need to watch the process and see what they try to add.

You misunderstand.

I'm not asking you to do my admin for me. I'm asking you to substantiate your own claims with solid evidence. This is entirely reasonable in a discussion where unevidenced claims are made.

As you're unwilling and/or unable to provide any evidence to support your claims, I will treat your earlier statement as just an assumption on your part, rather than a statement of fact.

If you could make a point of distinguishing between facts and unevidenced opinions in future, then I won't need to trouble you with so many requests for evidence.