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"National Security can't come at the cost of Social Security" - WTAF?

541 replies

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 14:52

Surely our PM releases that without National Security there is no Social Security? One is entirely dependent on the other.

OP posts:
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Pineneedlesincarpet · 11/09/2026 08:54

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 18:57

Logical to let rents spiral ever upwards? If you benefit from it sure. If you’re a government/LA with a housing crisis and a rising welfare bill, it’s pretty logical to cap them.

Some landlords are indeed charities.

But rents are going to go up even more as landlords leave the rental sector as they can't earn enough to pay the mortgage on the property. Those houses that were previously rented would be sold. The government can't have it both ways. If they have insufficient public provision for renters then they have to include the private sector. And landlords then have a choice to accept the rent caps which may mean that being a landlord doesn't work for them financially. Which is what is transpiring due to the new regs.

bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 08:52

@dwordle Our military is in a better state than it was under Margaret Thatcher, and if Argentina were stupid enough to attempt to take the Falklands they would be in for a pretty nasty surprise.

If we can't even get a warship from here to Cyprus, I don't hold out much hope of getting one down to the South Atlantic.

bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 08:49

Binnyforthewin · 11/09/2026 08:43

By take logic Hitler wasn't a war criminal. Netenyhu should certainly face trial at the ICC. he will face the charges in time, he can't be in power for ever.

You're comparing apples & pears there.
The whole world was at war with Hitler, the whole world isn't at war with Israel.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 11/09/2026 08:48

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 13:19

Exactly, consumer spending is the C in GDP. We can’t have a strong economy if no one can afford to spend their wages or their wages stagnate.

Consumer spending is not wealth creation in and of itself. Its just passing money on.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 11/09/2026 08:46

dwordle · 10/09/2026 21:41

Absolute economic illiteracy, the public sector in many cases does create wealth as does the private sector. The two are very much joined. Google for example provides educational platforms for schools and colleges, without public money that service would not exist and Google would close that platform, laying off workers and shrinking it's balance sheet. Workers would lose jobs, share prices might take a dip and theoretically there's been in a dip in wealth creation.

I could name many more but it's pointless when people can't actually see that many many very big companies do very well from government money.

What you are confusing is the balance of growth and what level of taxation actually stops growth or even reverses it..but that's an entirely different subject

So the public sector pays Google to provide the services. Where does the money come from to pay google? Taxpayers.

The public sector does not "create" wealth as Ive said. It facilitates the creation of wealth. It does not create wealth. Unless of course you consider quantative easing as "wealth creation" (haha) and then we really are in trouble.

Binnyforthewin · 11/09/2026 08:43

bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 08:37

No, he can't be called a War Criminal because he hasn't been tried in any court.
So we have another blinkered poster with selective compassion.
While there are atrocities taking place in Sudan, China, and Myanmar people are being pointed towards Israel because of course it's "no Jews no news".

I believe it will be Congress that will hold Trump to account and pressure will bring Netanyahu in line. If Israel continues the unfortunately it is highly likely that war will prevail and escalate.

What you believe is irrelevant when there is no proof of guilt.

Edited

By take logic Hitler wasn't a war criminal. Netenyhu should certainly face trial at the ICC. he will face the charges in time, he can't be in power for ever.

OP posts:
bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 08:37

dwordle · 11/09/2026 08:10

Oh dear another anti ICC and apologizer, we have every right to call him a war criminal because that's the accusation and he won't surrender himself to the court. He will never be able to visit mainland Europe against and he is effectively on the run.

No, he can't be called a War Criminal because he hasn't been tried in any court.
So we have another blinkered poster with selective compassion.
While there are atrocities taking place in Sudan, China, and Myanmar people are being pointed towards Israel because of course it's "no Jews no news".

I believe it will be Congress that will hold Trump to account and pressure will bring Netanyahu in line. If Israel continues the unfortunately it is highly likely that war will prevail and escalate.

What you believe is irrelevant when there is no proof of guilt.

dwordle · 11/09/2026 08:26

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:45

From which body/court has this arrest warrant come?

I will remind you while it wasn't the ICC, many Nazis and Bosnian war criminals were prosecuted by international courts.

These courts reflect the will of our world to bring justice in the face of immense power. When people undermine their power they will become toothless and lawlessness will prevail. When people like Trump, Netanyahu, Putin break international law they are simply undermining treaties and organisations that uphold human decency and rights.

I believe it will be Congress that will hold Trump to account and pressure will bring Netanyahu in line. If Israel continues the unfortunately it is highly likely that war will prevail and escalate.

dwordle · 11/09/2026 08:10

bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 00:51

So the ICC is just a toothless organisation that relies on others to do it's dirty work?
Unless Nettanyahu is convicted he can't be called a "War Criminal".

More pressing is the matter of Hamas praising Milliband for his actions in applying sanctions to the West Bank.
Basem Naim, a senior figure in Hamas's political bureau, said: "The imposition of sanctions by Britain and other European countries and Canada on goods imported from the settlements of the occupied West Bank, and the London foreign minister's use of the term 'ethnic cleansing' to describe the crimes of the settlers, are important steps in the right direction but they are not enough."

So it seems that this Labour government is now taking on the role of a terrorist organisation's lackey?

Ameer Kotecha, CEO of Centre of Government Reform and ex-Head of Palestinian Issues at the British Embassy in Israel, said that Labour's sanctions on Israeli settlements will have “very real consequences”. The former diplomat described the sanctions as a “moral crusade” or “virtue signalling”, rather than having a “hard-nosed focus on the British national interest”.

Mr Kotecha described Labour's sanctions announcement as an own goal amid retaliatory sanctions, particularly as humanitarian efforts for Gaza are orchestrated out of the consulate.
He said: “The consulate is basically the place coordinating all of our humanitarian and aid efforts for Gaza.
“There is a very real argument here that this is going to harm the ordinary Gazans that the average British person wants to support and assist.”

Gideon Saar, Israel's foreign minister, announced the UK would be barred from participating in the US-led coordination mission in Gaza. Speaking at a press conference in Jerusalem, Mr Saar said: "We do not return to our land after 2000 years in order to lose it under the pressure of Islamists, antisemites, jihadists, woke people and people from the extreme left.
"Not only will you not harm us, you will harm yourselves."

Mark Sewards ( new Chairman Labour Friends of Israel) says the trade ban on West Bank settlements could bolster Binyamin Netanyahu before pivotal Israeli elections and fuel antisemitism in Britain,

Oh dear another anti ICC and apologizer, we have every right to call him a war criminal because that's the accusation and he won't surrender himself to the court. He will never be able to visit mainland Europe against and he is effectively on the run.

bluebellsofscotland · 11/09/2026 00:51

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 22:17

Because he is avoiding the countries that would arrest him, just like Putin is. Putin also has an arrest warrant for war crimes from the ICC.

…

So the ICC is just a toothless organisation that relies on others to do it's dirty work?
Unless Nettanyahu is convicted he can't be called a "War Criminal".

More pressing is the matter of Hamas praising Milliband for his actions in applying sanctions to the West Bank.
Basem Naim, a senior figure in Hamas's political bureau, said: "The imposition of sanctions by Britain and other European countries and Canada on goods imported from the settlements of the occupied West Bank, and the London foreign minister's use of the term 'ethnic cleansing' to describe the crimes of the settlers, are important steps in the right direction but they are not enough."

So it seems that this Labour government is now taking on the role of a terrorist organisation's lackey?

Ameer Kotecha, CEO of Centre of Government Reform and ex-Head of Palestinian Issues at the British Embassy in Israel, said that Labour's sanctions on Israeli settlements will have “very real consequences”. The former diplomat described the sanctions as a “moral crusade” or “virtue signalling”, rather than having a “hard-nosed focus on the British national interest”.

Mr Kotecha described Labour's sanctions announcement as an own goal amid retaliatory sanctions, particularly as humanitarian efforts for Gaza are orchestrated out of the consulate.
He said: “The consulate is basically the place coordinating all of our humanitarian and aid efforts for Gaza.
“There is a very real argument here that this is going to harm the ordinary Gazans that the average British person wants to support and assist.”

Gideon Saar, Israel's foreign minister, announced the UK would be barred from participating in the US-led coordination mission in Gaza. Speaking at a press conference in Jerusalem, Mr Saar said: "We do not return to our land after 2000 years in order to lose it under the pressure of Islamists, antisemites, jihadists, woke people and people from the extreme left.
"Not only will you not harm us, you will harm yourselves."

Mark Sewards ( new Chairman Labour Friends of Israel) says the trade ban on West Bank settlements could bolster Binyamin Netanyahu before pivotal Israeli elections and fuel antisemitism in Britain,

bestcatlife · 10/09/2026 22:42

Not read all the comments but we desperately need social housing. It pays for itself. Compare £2,000 a month housing benefit paid for temporary accommodation as opposed to £500 a month in housing benefit for a council house. I don’t believe Labour will build any, by the way - despite their claims. I have lost faith in them entirely.

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 22:17

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:58

And so far there has been no arrest, is that correct ?

Because he is avoiding the countries that would arrest him, just like Putin is. Putin also has an arrest warrant for war crimes from the ICC.

…

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:58

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 21:49

International Criminal Court (ICC)

And so far there has been no arrest, is that correct ?

NullaEffugium · 10/09/2026 21:49

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:45

From which body/court has this arrest warrant come?

International Criminal Court (ICC)

dwordle · 10/09/2026 21:49

nearlylovemyusername · 10/09/2026 21:30

We have plenty of cheap housing, including social housing. What we don't have plenty of is jobs, colleges and training centers, properly functioning public transport and healthcare.

That's why I said that I'd move those who don't work. It really doesn't matter for society and tax payers if they don't work in SW London or don't work in the middle of nowhere. Children in non-working households are vanishingly unlikely to become productive members of society anyway no matter where they live. So let's just reduce the bill by moving them. And who knows, maybe a threat of being moved out of some of the most expensive areas in the country will insentivise some to actually get a job?

Deluded....are you going to move them to Blackpool where all the jobs are. It's certainly cheaper than Peckham

Many many people who claim benefits are actually working. Unfortunately their wages are so poor they can't afford to live without welfare. So uprooting these welfare claimants would harm our economy and cause more problems for areas with high unemployment.

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:45

dwordle · 10/09/2026 21:43

Well there's an arrest warrant and he can no longer pop to Canada or Spain or the UK or France or Norway or Sweden or Turkey..... without being arrested to stand trial for genocide

From which body/court has this arrest warrant come?

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:43

This reply has been withdrawn

Post withdrawn at author's request

dwordle · 10/09/2026 21:43

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:40

"And you will believe a war criminal charged with genocide"
No international court or judicial body has found Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu guilty of genocide.
Please do not promulgate misinformation.

Well there's an arrest warrant and he can no longer pop to Canada or Spain or the UK or France or Norway or Sweden or Turkey..... without being arrested to stand trial for genocide

ShitHoleDweller · 10/09/2026 21:42

5128gap · 10/09/2026 21:09

They wouldn't be forced to sell.

You can force landlords to sell up by simply making policy changes.

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 21:41

nearlylovemyusername · 10/09/2026 21:30

We have plenty of cheap housing, including social housing. What we don't have plenty of is jobs, colleges and training centers, properly functioning public transport and healthcare.

That's why I said that I'd move those who don't work. It really doesn't matter for society and tax payers if they don't work in SW London or don't work in the middle of nowhere. Children in non-working households are vanishingly unlikely to become productive members of society anyway no matter where they live. So let's just reduce the bill by moving them. And who knows, maybe a threat of being moved out of some of the most expensive areas in the country will insentivise some to actually get a job?

Children in non-working households are vanishingly unlikely to become productive members of society anyway no matter where they live.

This is untrue. The ONS publish data on this. Children who grow up in workless households are less likely than others to work, but their employment rate is about 50% (compared to 70% average) and the gap narrows with age.

Most children from workless households do not simply become permanently workless adults.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/youngpeopleinthelabourmarketbysocioeconomicbackgrounduk/2014to2021

Young people in the labour market by socio-economic background, UK - Office for National Statistics

Estimates of young people in employment, unemployment and economic inactivity by their socio-economic background, including breakdowns by sex and a comparison with older age groups. Data from the Labour Force Survey.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/youngpeopleinthelabourmarketbysocioeconomicbackgrounduk/2014to2021

dwordle · 10/09/2026 21:41

Pineneedlesincarpet · 10/09/2026 15:49

lol. Wealth is not created by the public sector. The public sector supports wealth creators (such as providing legal framework, education, roads etc) but does not create wealth itself. You cannot invest in the public sector to create wealth. The public sector spends money. It doesn't make money.

I do wish the left would understand this. It might support the private sector a bit better rather than trying to kill the golden goose.

Absolute economic illiteracy, the public sector in many cases does create wealth as does the private sector. The two are very much joined. Google for example provides educational platforms for schools and colleges, without public money that service would not exist and Google would close that platform, laying off workers and shrinking it's balance sheet. Workers would lose jobs, share prices might take a dip and theoretically there's been in a dip in wealth creation.

I could name many more but it's pointless when people can't actually see that many many very big companies do very well from government money.

What you are confusing is the balance of growth and what level of taxation actually stops growth or even reverses it..but that's an entirely different subject

bluebellsofscotland · 10/09/2026 21:40

dwordle · 10/09/2026 07:22

And you will believe a war criminal charged with genocide. A compulsive liar and a person with no regard for international law over your own government.

Benjamin Netanyahu is a nasty bit of work and we should not let harsh words interfere with good judgement.

"And you will believe a war criminal charged with genocide"
No international court or judicial body has found Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu guilty of genocide.
Please do not promulgate misinformation.

nearlylovemyusername · 10/09/2026 21:30

Frequency · 10/09/2026 18:09

You'd also be moving people away from job opportunities and education choices. I live in one of the most deprived areas of the country, so one of the places @nearlylovemyusername would move people to.

We have plenty of cheap housing, including social housing. What we don't have plenty of is jobs, colleges and training centers, properly functioning public transport and healthcare.

There is reason housing is cheap, no one has any money coz there are no jobs and no buses to the places where there are jobs.

The lack of money, opportunities and education also paves the way for high crime and high levels of addiction.

Moving more skint people here won't reduce the welfare bill, it will create ghettos and eventually lead to riots.

We have plenty of cheap housing, including social housing. What we don't have plenty of is jobs, colleges and training centers, properly functioning public transport and healthcare.

That's why I said that I'd move those who don't work. It really doesn't matter for society and tax payers if they don't work in SW London or don't work in the middle of nowhere. Children in non-working households are vanishingly unlikely to become productive members of society anyway no matter where they live. So let's just reduce the bill by moving them. And who knows, maybe a threat of being moved out of some of the most expensive areas in the country will insentivise some to actually get a job?

Switchnow · 10/09/2026 21:28

ShitHoleDweller · 10/09/2026 20:18

Hedge funds will more than likely buy up housing stock on behalf of foreign investors.

There are tens of thousands of rented homes owned by private equity firms.

5128gap · 10/09/2026 21:09

ShitHoleDweller · 10/09/2026 20:33

If the government brought in policies that forced independent landlords to have to dump properties enmasse onto the open market and then the government purchased those properties cheaply, I think that might be called Communism 😬

They wouldn't be forced to sell.

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