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"National Security can't come at the cost of Social Security" - WTAF?

541 replies

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 14:52

Surely our PM releases that without National Security there is no Social Security? One is entirely dependent on the other.

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BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:51

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

Why doesn’t the government add another 5% on if any increase has no effect?

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:50

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:48

If given a choice between defence of the country and a reduction in disability benefits (such as for depression or ADHD) then presumably most people have the sense of self preservation to chose defence.

And I suspect if the Russians invaded they won't be dishing out too many benefits to whoever is left..

Edited

I don't think anyone can assume to speak for others, the polling speaks for itself. There's no majority support for the cuts being proposed here.

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 21:50

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

Do you believe that increasing NI aided growth?

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NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:41

Were you running these successful businesses at the time of the ENI increase? How many employees did you have then and now?

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:48

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 21:48

Do you believe that increasing NI helped with growth? You can come up with other impacts but fundamentally you either have to believe it helps growth or hinders growth? I think increasing the cost of employing people hindered growth.

Plus hospitality and retail were hit hard, there’s not much AI there.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:48

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:46

But then you're back to this issue we discussed before of 50% of Con/Reform voters don't want to see disability benefits cut, and you yourself said only 60% of Con/Reform voters want unemployment benefits cut. And those are the groups of voters most in favour!

If given a choice between defence of the country and a reduction in disability benefits (such as for depression or ADHD) then presumably most people have the sense of self preservation to chose defence.

And I suspect if the Russians invaded they won't be dishing out too many benefits to whoever is left..

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 21:48

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:43

Even from your description there’s more than one factor - automation, efficiency, rising costs including but not limited to NI, and falling revenue.

Do you believe that increasing NI helped with growth? You can come up with other impacts but fundamentally you either have to believe it helps growth or hinders growth? I think increasing the cost of employing people hindered growth.

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EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:47

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:44

it absolutely does. If the government slashed business rates and Ni tomorrow we would hire about 5 more people and invest in new more modern facilities. The plan is ready to go. We just need to free up the capital. Those people should pay taxes, the business would grow and we’d end up paying more corporation tax. But we can’t so we are holding out for some future time when things get better.

Labour will only be near people who reinforce high taxes and spend at every meeting. Or were with Starmer.

Burnham is yet to do much other than light headlines.

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:46

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:37

When over 800k households receive more than £30k in benefits, national security should definitely come at the expense of some social security…

Or AIBU?

But then you're back to this issue we discussed before of 50% of Con/Reform voters don't want to see disability benefits cut, and you yourself said only 60% of Con/Reform voters want unemployment benefits cut. And those are the groups of voters most in favour!

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:45

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:43

Even from your description there’s more than one factor - automation, efficiency, rising costs including but not limited to NI, and falling revenue.

Yes of course that happens but new jobs are created as businesses grow. There is no growth at all.

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:44

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:41

I hope you don’t also think that slashing taxes stimulates growth.

it absolutely does. If the government slashed business rates and Ni tomorrow we would hire about 5 more people and invest in new more modern facilities. The plan is ready to go. We just need to free up the capital. Those people should pay taxes, the business would grow and we’d end up paying more corporation tax. But we can’t so we are holding out for some future time when things get better.

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:43

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:37

nope just complete anecdotal experience. Genuinely , I had to make someone redundant last week and it was awful. 100% down to Ni and our business rates bill going up. Revenue has stagnated the last few years and costs have just gone up. Couldn’t absorb it anymore so merged a few roles and automated where we could.

i am not the only person saying this., in my 30 odd year career this is the worst I have ever felt things have been and no one has any optimism it will get any better until the government slashes taxes and stimulates some growth

Edited

Even from your description there’s more than one factor - automation, efficiency, rising costs including but not limited to NI, and falling revenue.

Frequency · 09/09/2026 21:43

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:37

When over 800k households receive more than £30k in benefits, national security should definitely come at the expense of some social security…

Or AIBU?

YABU, especially if you plan on scraping the cuts from HB. Not only are YBU, but you are being shortsighted. Do you know how much more expensive temporary housing is? Cutting HB will hike the welfare bill up.

And how many working homeless people have you met recently?

We could save money on housing benefits quite easily and without causing mass homelessness by capping private rents, but no one has the guts to do that.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:43

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:40

Admissions data doesn’t seem to back up the claim of kids leaving private schools. OBR estimates the policy will raise 1.5bn a year so even some have moved the cost of a few million is worth it. If some Labour MPs have their kids in private school they’ll be paying VAT.

Should we ignore ethnic cleansing by an ally? I’m not convinced.

Labour predicted 3,000 would leave. Its 30,000 and rising and that doesnt include those children that would have gone to private school but for the VAT rises.

I think we live in the world of real politic now not virtue signaling. And ethnic cleansing as far as I know has not been proven. Labour's decision was premature and achieved nothing. If they wanted to stop ethnic cleansing why not do something that actually stopped ethnic cleansing?

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:42

Frequency · 09/09/2026 21:32

Do you have figures to back this up? Because the ones I have seen show no acceleration in the decline.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9nwx090v9o

Am I reading the graph right that vacancies fell by about 500k between 2022 and the Starmer government, and then another 100k since?

I had not known the fall was so steep under the last government.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:41

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:41

I hope you don’t also think that slashing taxes stimulates growth.

Slashing corporation tax would. Obviously.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:41

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:38

I’ve run businesses successfully and have an MBA.
The NI is a political football.
The loss of jobs is due to larger, systemic issues like Brexit and Automation/AI

Were you running these successful businesses at the time of the ENI increase? How many employees did you have then and now?

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:41

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:37

nope just complete anecdotal experience. Genuinely , I had to make someone redundant last week and it was awful. 100% down to Ni and our business rates bill going up. Revenue has stagnated the last few years and costs have just gone up. Couldn’t absorb it anymore so merged a few roles and automated where we could.

i am not the only person saying this., in my 30 odd year career this is the worst I have ever felt things have been and no one has any optimism it will get any better until the government slashes taxes and stimulates some growth

Edited

I hope you don’t also think that slashing taxes stimulates growth.

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:40

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:31

The trouble is they make decisions based on ideology rather than the real world and what is in the national interest. Another example...VAT on private schools. Billed as a money raiser for the state sector when in reality we know it was a decision taken for ideological reasons (although that doesnt apply to Labour MPs who are ideologically able to argue themselves into putting their own kids into private school) it is actually costing the tax payer millions in having to pay for the kids transferring to the state sector. Cause and effect. Ed Milliband. Unable to make a decision in the national interest if theres an ideological element...net zero and now this performative action against an ally. Would we prefer Israel or Gaza to back us up if we needed an ally in a War? Tricky question...

Admissions data doesn’t seem to back up the claim of kids leaving private schools. OBR estimates the policy will raise 1.5bn a year so even some have moved the cost of a few million is worth it. If some Labour MPs have their kids in private school they’ll be paying VAT.

Should we ignore ethnic cleansing by an ally? I’m not convinced.

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:40

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:36

Who is "they"? The majority of tbe private sector is made up of SMEs.

Exactly. The posts below are in line with Pat McFadden’s take on Labour.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:39

PickAChew · 09/09/2026 21:36

I'd love to see a venn diagram of posters wanting welfare spending to be drastically slashed and those complaining about all the homeless people cluttering up their town centres.

Id love to see a Venn diagram of people chosing between their kids going to war because some countries assumed we were vulnerable due to our lack of defence capability and housing for a small number of people many of whom aren't legally allowed to be in the country.

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:38

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 21:28

That post pretty much sums up the lack of understanding the Reeves had. If the Labour had more people who had run business rather than career politicans they would understand the real world impacts more.

I’ve run businesses successfully and have an MBA.
The NI is a political football.
The loss of jobs is due to larger, systemic issues like Brexit and Automation/AI

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:37

Frequency · 09/09/2026 21:32

Do you have figures to back this up? Because the ones I have seen show no acceleration in the decline.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn9nwx090v9o

nope just complete anecdotal experience. Genuinely , I had to make someone redundant last week and it was awful. 100% down to Ni and our business rates bill going up. Revenue has stagnated the last few years and costs have just gone up. Couldn’t absorb it anymore so merged a few roles and automated where we could.

i am not the only person saying this., in my 30 odd year career this is the worst I have ever felt things have been and no one has any optimism it will get any better until the government slashes taxes and stimulates some growth

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:37

When over 800k households receive more than £30k in benefits, national security should definitely come at the expense of some social security…

Or AIBU?

PickAChew · 09/09/2026 21:36

I'd love to see a venn diagram of posters wanting welfare spending to be drastically slashed and those complaining about all the homeless people cluttering up their town centres.

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