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"National Security can't come at the cost of Social Security" - WTAF?

541 replies

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 14:52

Surely our PM releases that without National Security there is no Social Security? One is entirely dependent on the other.

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Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 22:03

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 22:01

No. Slashing taxes increases profits.

Growth requires investment. There is no direct pipeline from profits to investment in the UK especially since the number of foreign owned businesses has soared by 35% since Brexit and account for around 30% of the aGVA.

Things are a lot more complex than you realise.

Slashing corporation tax didnt do Ireland any harm.

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 22:03

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:59

I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.

Forgive me - you were a consultant with a portfolio….you were a consultant or you managed a portfolio of companies? Which is it?

Both.
I worked in multi-national businesses and then most recently was a consultant with a portfolio.

Largest business had 689,000 employees.

dustabsorber · 09/09/2026 22:03

Why should anyone who doesn't contribute to society vote?

nearlylovemyusername · 09/09/2026 22:02

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

Depends on business area. Large multinational - no issues.

Retail or hospitality with 10,000 employees on NMW - huge impact. They operate on tiny margins, usually 3-4%, and their labour costs are usually the largest cost item. 1.2% increase means huge numbers for them. I consulted for one of such businesses - the next month after ER NI hike they stopped all recruitment and started reorg.

It's scale which matters - when largest employers, who often offer first jobs to youngster, stop recruiting, the impact is severe. So you can continue minimising the issue, but this hike does have a big impact

Happyjoe · 09/09/2026 22:02

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 18:10

I think many of us are tired at Labours continued attempts to buy votes via welfare.

It has to stop.

All these people on benefits didn't just happen when Labour came into power. The tories had 14 years to sort it so it's a bit galling when Kemi starts bitching now.

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 22:01

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:59

I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.

Forgive me - you were a consultant with a portfolio….you were a consultant or you managed a portfolio of companies? Which is it?

It can probably be which ever you choose given the likelihood of it being true for someone so anti-business.

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EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 22:01

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:59

Haha yes - if the opinion poll doesn't go the way you want, start undermining the survey!

The public could never actually mean what they say, the question must be wrong. Or the sample flawed. Or just fake news.

Which specific poll is it?

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 22:01

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:41

Slashing corporation tax would. Obviously.

No. Slashing taxes increases profits.

Growth requires investment. There is no direct pipeline from profits to investment in the UK especially since the number of foreign owned businesses has soared by 35% since Brexit and account for around 30% of the aGVA.

Things are a lot more complex than you realise.

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 22:00

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:56

Its ENI not NI.
Obviously if an employer can get away with 4 employees they won't employ the fifth person they may have before the Budget.

AI hasn't worked its way through yet to many businesses. I don't accept that as the reason to explain the unemployment rise.

You don't seem to understand how tight margins are in an SME. Often business owners go without paying themselves a wage just to ensure their employees are paid.

Yes it’s the lack of understanding of SMEs, which make up a large chunk of the economy.

Greyrock79 · 09/09/2026 21:59

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.

Forgive me - you were a consultant with a portfolio….you were a consultant or you managed a portfolio of companies? Which is it?

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:59

nearlylovemyusername · 09/09/2026 21:55

I don't think we've seen a reliable source - we need to see what questions were asked in survey.

Haha yes - if the opinion poll doesn't go the way you want, start undermining the survey!

The public could never actually mean what they say, the question must be wrong. Or the sample flawed. Or just fake news.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:59

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:52

The ISC says 30k fewer private school admissions, but state school admissions have also fallen by about 140,000 since the VAT introduction. Nothing to show those 30k private school places were pupils who went into state schools and even if they did they’re not costing more because state school admissions are falling.

No doubt it’s not yet been proven - how long did it take to ‘prove’ in the Balkans? And still there’s debate over whether Srebrenica was a genocide (guess what Israel’s stance is in that?) I don’t want to wait until it’s proven, let them prove it’s not. We can see with our eyes what’s happening and it’s wrong. For me it matters that we are brave enough to say that. For some clearly they’d rather be quiet in case of opprobrium.

Edited

Well lets see when the figures come out as to how much they've raised to spend on all these hundreds of new teachers. Pathetic counter productive spiteful policy. Ideological of course. Typical Labour

We weren't "brave". The measures will achieve nothing other than angering an ally. AB was just pandering to the PLP and heading off a challenge to the Muslim labour vote.

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:58

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:57

Have you been in a chain restaurant lately, or a supermarket or heard of online shopping? Purchasing and payment done on apps and automated kiosks means massive job reductions.

You know what’ll make that faster? Increasing the cost of staff.

Binnyforthewin · 09/09/2026 21:57

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:54

The ones they make, yes. But currently, they are trying to correct over a decade of economic self harm by the tories.

Haha correct "self harm" by curring our arms off! I fail to see how someone who claims to have been a business consultant can be supportive of the most anti-business government we have had since the 70s.

OP posts:
Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:57

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:48

Plus hospitality and retail were hit hard, there’s not much AI there.

Have you been in a chain restaurant lately, or a supermarket or heard of online shopping? Purchasing and payment done on apps and automated kiosks means massive job reductions.

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:57

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:51

Why doesn’t the government add another 5% on if any increase has no effect?

Oh dear, that’s not at all what I said.

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:56

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

Its ENI not NI.
Obviously if an employer can get away with 4 employees they won't employ the fifth person they may have before the Budget.

AI hasn't worked its way through yet to many businesses. I don't accept that as the reason to explain the unemployment rise.

You don't seem to understand how tight margins are in an SME. Often business owners go without paying themselves a wage just to ensure their employees are paid.

nearlylovemyusername · 09/09/2026 21:55

concertinacornflake · 09/09/2026 21:50

I don't think anyone can assume to speak for others, the polling speaks for itself. There's no majority support for the cuts being proposed here.

I don't think we've seen a reliable source - we need to see what questions were asked in survey.

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:55

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:54

The ones they make, yes. But currently, they are trying to correct over a decade of economic self harm by the tories.

What do you mean the ones they make?

Do you mean whatever they hike in taxes is fine with you?

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:54

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:52

Labour are responsible for poor decisions.

On this do you want to see more tax hikes?

The ones they make, yes. But currently, they are trying to correct over a decade of economic self harm by the tories.

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:53

BananaPeels · 09/09/2026 21:44

it absolutely does. If the government slashed business rates and Ni tomorrow we would hire about 5 more people and invest in new more modern facilities. The plan is ready to go. We just need to free up the capital. Those people should pay taxes, the business would grow and we’d end up paying more corporation tax. But we can’t so we are holding out for some future time when things get better.

If you had a decent business plan, you wouldn’t need the government to give you a handout. Your business would have the investment capital already.

Frequency · 09/09/2026 21:52

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:48

Plus hospitality and retail were hit hard, there’s not much AI there.

Hospitality and retail have had AI and automation for years. Self-service tills, service check ins/outs, automated/AI stock-taking software that is also capable of ordering new stock as needed, AI agents running online/phone customer service...

EasternStandard · 09/09/2026 21:52

NullaEffugium · 09/09/2026 21:49

I’m early retired.
I was a consultant with a portfolio of dozens of businesses (profit and not for profit) with total annual revenues over £30 billion.
The NI increase of 1.2% was peanuts. If you can’t handle such a small change that was completely offset for micro businesses by the doubled employment allowance , you really are in trouble.
Brexit was a much bigger fish to fry with loss of jobs for young people in sectors like hospitality plus the shocking increases to import/export business costs and EU market loss.
The impact of automation and AI to jobs especially the elimination of entry level jobs cannot be understated.
There are also long term trends finishing out like the move away from high street and shopping centre to online shopping.

But yeah, go ahead and blame a 1.2% increase in labour costs.

Labour are responsible for poor decisions.

On this do you want to see more tax hikes?

nearlylovemyusername · 09/09/2026 21:52

LipglossAndLies · 09/09/2026 18:20

100% this.

It is also a little bit suspicious that we place sanctions on Israel and NATs had a technical issue. Maybe a coincidence...myabe not.... but defende needs to also be against cyber attacks too not just standard military responses.

I really don't think these two are connected, however, a few days (?) ago Putin promised "significant consequences" for UK which might come from unknown sources. NATs issue followed shortly.

I really do think it's prime time to cut working age welfare and invest in defence

Switchnow · 09/09/2026 21:52

Pineneedlesincarpet · 09/09/2026 21:43

Labour predicted 3,000 would leave. Its 30,000 and rising and that doesnt include those children that would have gone to private school but for the VAT rises.

I think we live in the world of real politic now not virtue signaling. And ethnic cleansing as far as I know has not been proven. Labour's decision was premature and achieved nothing. If they wanted to stop ethnic cleansing why not do something that actually stopped ethnic cleansing?

Edited

The ISC says 30k fewer private school admissions, but state school admissions have also fallen by about 140,000 since the VAT introduction. Nothing to show those 30k private school places were pupils who went into state schools and even if they did they’re not costing more because state school admissions are falling.

No doubt it’s not yet been proven - how long did it take to ‘prove’ in the Balkans? And still there’s debate over whether Srebrenica was a genocide (guess what Israel’s stance is in that?) I don’t want to wait until it’s proven, let them prove it’s not. We can see with our eyes what’s happening and it’s wrong. For me it matters that we are brave enough to say that. For some clearly they’d rather be quiet in case of opprobrium.

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