Healey Resignation

I agree.
Many years ago, I suppose when the push to get young people to university had started, I asked a mother at Parents' Evening if her son had any ideas about what he wanted to do when he left school. 'He just wants to be a joiner,' she said, rather apologetically.
I said I thought it was an excellent plan as he'd have a skill that would always be in demand and she was very appreciative. I hope he's had a good career.

Something has definitely gone wrong along the way. When I left school at 16 there were real choices - straight to work, college, apprenticeship, apprenticeship with day release, university (by far the least common). We were encouraged to study something that would lead to a job, I was never encouraged to study for study’s sake. No such thing as gap years. I think the mass push towards university has a lot to answer for. I think trades people are awesome, I think plasterers are my favourite imagine producing such smooth gorgeous walls at the end of a days work, real skill. I’d be really proud if I were a parent with a son or daughter who learned a trade.

Nobody benefits. Hopefully Milburn’s report will result in dispelling this kind of negativity and getting some of these kids into jobs.

No one will insure work experience dc doing trades and the self employed one man business just won’t do it. Colleges of FE are underfunded and they are certainly the Cinderella of education post 16 and 18.

Small trades companies tend to recruit their own dc and mates of dc. They cannot afford an expensive mistake. Plus a lack of trades keeps the price high - so who benefits from that? Yes, the trades!

I'm retired now and I don't know what the current situation is. I remember years ago being dismayed that trades were hardly represented at careers evenings.
So many tradespeople work on their own and can't afford the time and cost of training an apprentice so didn't want to take part.
If I were still teaching I would hope that young men like the roofer and a neighbour's son who wasn't really interested at school but is now a very hard-working and successful carpenter would come and talk to pupils. It's so much needed.
Apart from financial incentives for employers further education colleges should be far better funded with good quality teaching.

It is. Do you know if trades people like your former pupil are invited into schools to give talks and show how successful a career choice it can be? Otherwise it’s really sad as if even with all the incentives in the world, the apprentices behave like those described by the roofers, you can understand why they are reluctant to take them on. It would be interesting to hear the apprentices views too as to way early hard work and enthusiasm seems short lived.

I would hope that with the shortage of tradespeople and the difficulties of finding graduate work more young people would want to learn a trade. They are desperately needed.
However my roofers were telling me the other day that they can't find an apprentice who turns up and is willing to learn. The first few weeks go well, then the slacking starts. The roofers are young men themselves, before they are accused of being grumpy older men.
A former pupil of mine, also a roofer, was bright but not academically inclined at school. Now in his thirties he has his own very successful business. He got stuck in as an apprentice and is doing really well.
However an excellent painter and decorator of my acquaintance who teaches part-time at the local college is depressed at the lack of funding for his courses. Hardly any materials are available which leads to boring lessons and lack of motivation for the trainees. This is a scandalous situation.

I find it really sad that Saturday jobs seem to be a thing of the past. I did various jobs from age about 14, as so did most of my friends.

From 16 I worked in a fashion shop on a Saturday, delivered local papers once a week, did a rota of Sunday work in a sweet shop, filled in a cleaning job for cleaners on holiday, where all the ladies were picked up in a van and off we went. Actually I learned from that job that the cleaner always gets first blame, so not to touch things left on desks. Over many years of office jobs later, if I hear anyone complaining about a cleaner just cleaning around their things, I try to stick up for them.

At college, I signed on for temp work and worked in various places over the summer break. I was in the office, but in a factory environment I chatted to women who’d worked their lives there on the production lines.

All these things were fantastic experience at such a young age. I think it was more the interaction with different people, environments, industry types, customers, the public, etc that was the most valuable, not the typing invoices, or unwrapping and hanging clothes deliveries in the back room.

Maybe we should incentivise weekend jobs for 16 year olds which have all but vanished and make work experience in school compulsory.

They’re never going to get any better unless they start getting acquainted with the real world and work.

So you think a million young people are useless and just want to write them off @MeetMeOnTheCorner? Good luck to all of you when you need tradesmen in 20 years time with that attitude. I’ll be dead so it won’t bother me.

@BlossomtoesYou are confusing a perceived need being the same as employing people. Not the same thing at all. Competent trades get work but they don’t want the cost of employing young people. Some do and college courses are available, but employers want good young people, not ones who are flaky, want extra time to complete anything, have behaviour issues or simply aren’t interested. All young people never got employed in the good old days either. There were more jobs for the totally unskilled but employers won’t put in the effort if it costs too much - at the moment it does. Plus the results of their investment aren’t always great!

All unemployed young people deserve a chance. Since Brexit there’s a shortage of skilled trades people. We need bricklayers, plumbers, electricians. That’s not inventing jobs, it’s filling a need. We simply can’t have nearly a million young people languishing on benefits for the rest of their lives - have you read the Milburn report?

@nearlylovemyusername Many employers can find good enough employees without scraping the barrel. Too many young people cite many reasons why they cannot work. Employers don’t find them to be suitable employees for a variety of reasons. In some cases the incentives would have to be massive! Some young unemployed people do deserve a chance and would be great employees but we would be inventing jobs for the rest and employers aren’t going to do it!

agree completely.

You were posting a lot that 1p tax increase would generate money whilst not making material difference to taxpayer so I might have misunderstood you.

In parallel to what you propose the benefits should be made time limited, so people have to make an effort.

I don’t think I’ve made myself clear. I don’t propose raising taxes at all. My suggestion is to incentivise employers to offer apprenticeships and jobs specifically to young people on benefits. You could exempt employers’ NI contributions for a period for that specific job or offer tax breaks. As people come off benefits the money is recycled into the scheme to create further jobs or apprenticeships. At worst it would be cost neutral, at best it would generate money to the Treasury via income tax and employees’ NI.

It does. It makes perfect sense and should be one of the priorities.

The issue is that you propose to increase taxes first, then to create jobs / training programs and then hope that benefits bill might decrease.

The reason why many posters oppose this idea is because we can't bear any more taxation and for economy to start creating jobs taxes need to drop first. And t make it happen we need to decrease benefits bill.

So initiatives to create more jobs for the nearly one million young people who have never worked, funded by the consequent savings in benefits doesn’t make sense. OK.

Yes.

We can read them, we can’t make them make sense.

That’s why I suggested a solution. Is anyone actually reading my posts before they go into attack mode?

It's changing education (incentivise universities to offer degree apprenticeships and HTQs) AND reducing tax burden on employers to make more entry level positions available AND addressing mental health support for CYP.

AND repel Labour Rights Bill - because who in sane mind will now employ and young "untested" person if they can't get rid if things go wrong. We weren't in Wild West before mostly, but NI+NMW+this Bill - well, who could have thought it will make things a little bit challenging. Especially given AI

Have you tried sitting him
down for a bit of a chat on that?

Same here. My 24 year old cannot find decent work. Infact change that cannot find any full time work anywhere. A number of large employers, ie, Next are only offering max of 15 hrs contract unless it is a management post. And you can’t have two 15 hr contracts. I reckon that’s so they pay minimal employer NI as opposed to full NI with a 37 hr employee. This is govt legislation that has done that. Most orgs don’t even reply or allow feedback. It’s appalling.

I know he could go into care work as I’ve been told here, but he doesn’t want to do intimate care for elderly. It’s not a path he wants.