This post nails it about left wing voters on Mumsnet over the last two days

Labour only have themselves to blame because they failed to properly sayisfy the needs of the immigrant communities in this country and now many of them will look to the Green Party who do value what they need. Instead they pandered to the ever dwindling white working class base who are becoming increasingly democratically irrelevant as they get smaller demographically.

I don't care to advise them on policy because I am fully behind the Green party but if Labour were smart, they would rally fully behind Gaza, promise robust legislation against islamophpbic rhetoric online and work with these communities to open up more avenues of immigration in exchange for full support in the following general election.

The hukou system means that rural migrants cannot get the benefits that are due to the children of urban residents. Whether you agree with it or not, it means that residents are not pushed out in favor of newcomers. It also means you have a place to send homeless people and criminals (back to their hometowns).

Net migration is down and will fall further

Large scale immmigration is not happening.

Both Labour and Tories are in favour of large scale immigration.

Tories because of cheap labour and to cut costs by bringing in doctors, engineers etc from abroad rather than train our own.

Labour because they are globalists in their hearts and they believe in open borders and they see immigrants as natural Labour supporters.

Their thinking is that anyone who doesn't go along with this must be called a thicko and a racist until they can be made to shut up. They also try to gaslight people into thinking they are interested in controlling our borders.

@InstantlyBella you,are once more spouting nonsense.

Jesus Christ. There's some crazy comments on MN but this one tops them all for blind ignorance. Just sod off love. An old saying in Bradford was " too bloody daft to talk to " and you fit the bill.

Bradford is majority white, so yes it will be white British gangs.

I can guarantee that those from Bradford weren't.

I am sure that is news to the CPC that China does not believe in equality. Do you mean with the Haungbao system they have where they class people as urban or rural ? That is a restrictive and dated system, and it is still in place now because they use it for other reasons. It was to control mass migration from the country to the city. Now it is more about grandparents in rural hometowns looking after kids. Sort of.

Vietnam, I don't know. But communist.

VZ is not communist.

Cuba has the big issue of US sanctions.

Anyway, you never answered the question I asked. Should Marxist countries change how the Proletariat is defined ? This is what I don't understand here.

Does that imply that the Right is in favour of a bigger divide between poor and rich?

Rich get richer
Poor get poorer

@RedTagAlan
Only the Left in the UK think that everyone should be equal even if it means that everyone becomes poorer.
China believes in people working hard. It does not believe that everyone should be equal. There is a big divide between rich and poor in China. The government has a monopoly on power but it has a market-driven economy. There is a lot of private enterprise. This has allowed the country to get richer and has improved everyone's standard of living.
Vietnam also has a big divide between rich and poor. It has single party rule but a market driven economy and supports private enterprise. The country is getting richer due to it market driven economy. Although there is a divide between rich and poor, the poorest are also becoming better off.
Venezuela believed in making everyone equal and everyone has become poorer.
Economists say that Cuba's persistent poverty is related to heavy restrictions on private enterprise and socialism. Cuba has food rationing!

So you have somehow converted the concept of free movement into some sort of colonial exploitation of the proletariat?

While actually the concept of free movement is just what it says on the tin. That in a union of like minded states, people should be able to choose where they live and work.

it was the Torys who basically said ‘come on in ‘ post Brexit to disguise the fact that staffing wise on essential services Brexit was a bloody disaster.
The rot set in with Labour encouraging Freedom of Movement (many other EU countries did not do this). People who had money were happy use the Polish Plumber who was cheaper and more reliable than the home-grown variety. The HGV weren't so happy at being undercut and hence Brexit.

I'm always amazed that people who decry colonialism - the exploitation, in their homeland, of overseas resources and populations - are also the people who are comfortable with immigration - the exploitation of overseas populations, by depriving them of their best workers.

Labour are globalists
YY to this. Socialists are very keen on the international angle. They seem to care more for fellow socialists abroad than for their own countrymen/women. It could explain why NeverHereKeir is all over world events, to the detriment of sorting out his own back yard.

Ahh right. So where does the proletariat and bourgeoise fit in now ? This all confuses me :-)

I wonder if the communist Parties of China, Vietnam and Cuba have updated their definitions to match what Reform voters say ?

The Left are all sitting at home counting their generous benefit money that the Right pays for, keep up

Labour are globalists, most of them believe in open borders and free movement. They see immigrants as natural Labour voters so having large numbers arriving and eventually claiming citizenship can only help Labour's prospects long term.

They allow the lawyer class to obstruct deportation with an endless round of appeals. A tiny percentage of illegal immigrants get deported.

They may have given money to the French and they may like to talk tough, but Labour are not committed to controlling our borders and people have got wise to it.

Absolutely poppycock, Labour have put huge money into this including a recent deal with the French - what makes you think they want uncontrolled migration? Rules to come here legally are incredibly tight - it was the Torys who basically said ‘come on in ‘ post Brexit to disguise the fact that staffing wise on essential services Brexit was a bloody disaster. A lot of working class Brits if we must use that expression are more than happy to work as little as possible and get top ups ( and plenty of trustafarian types too on the left too ) - if Reform did get even tighter on benefits and disabled entitlement, ironically it’s many of their own voters they will hit too - turkeys voting for Xmas - coz we all know they mean ‘other peoples’ benefits, not ones they might get - personally I totally agreed with getting rid of WFA ( my father in law at 86 is loaded, my struggling 28 year old son working full time and in London doesn’t get it) and I also agreed with the 2 child cap- and im a centre left voter.

Yes, I agree. The demographics of our country are changing fast. The better off don't see it because they're insulated from it.

So all the mainstream politicians and media have to offer is telling people that they shouldn't feel unsettled by the changes and that they should just shut up. It doesn't surprise me that Reform are doing well.

I think that we have to remember the definition of 'working class'.
link
link

Apparently not. Yet “working class” seems to have expanded to include everyone who has a job. There’s no sense nor reason to it.

Does nobody on the left work ?

This. Working class means working people - they seem to get forgotten by the left.

Labour are fine throwing money in benefits about, but then clobber the working class with an ever growing tax burden.

@SweetSummerHerbs - every word you’ve said.

I think most working class people know someone who is working the system and feel frustrated when they are told that that is vanishingly rare.

However, I think as well as finances, many people are fed up of being told there is no such thing as British values or British culture. I have seen that on these boards.

They are worried, in many northern towns, that they are becoming a minority and frustrated and upset when people-on these boards for example-say what really worries you about this-is it because they are brown folk.

Well yes, in some cases it is-they see people from other countries dressed in the way their culture demands, lots of mosques and Islamic education centres springing up and they are worried that it is end days for them.

These worries are dismissed by saying that they are uncultured racists.

That adds fuel to their feelings, although I have observed that the word racist in these areas no longer carries the weight it did.

They are annoyed that in their local museums and art galleries, many displays and exhibitions are about these cultures and wonder why that should be. They see that exhibits now have little cards up explaining why it is unsound from a racist viewpoint.

This is their experience.

They read about how the countryside has been deemed racist; they read that Halal meat is served in schools and hospitals; they read that diversity is our strength and all sorts of things like local sharia courts springing up in terraced houses.

This may not be their experience BUT their experience of other stuff tells them that there is a good chance that the rest of it is true too,

Reform know all this and they give the impression at least that they will tackle it.

I think other political parties focus on how much migrants cost-good or bad-and this is a consideration but it is my belief that the changing culture is the thing that will sweep Reform to power or at least make them kingmakers.

Actually, the work they have done with the French is already making a difference.