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Politics

The Masochism of Voting Reform

142 replies

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 11:16

Reform voters are now the largest mass political movement in the UK. While their leaders are bereft of both principles and plans, dismissing all Reform voters as idiots and racists is a lazy cop out that serves nobody.

Voting Labour is an act of crass immorality and stupidity, voting Tory suggests a drag anchor of stasis and apathy, voting Lib Dem smacks of a lack of passion and imagination, but voting Reform is an act of unmitigated masochism and self harm - but it is important we understand why people do it.

On one level its the logical fallacy outlined in Yes Prime Minister, my dog has four legs and my cat has four legs - therefore my dog is a cat. I want reform and here is a new party called Reform so i’ll vote for that. Dominic Cummings used the word Brexit to work the same scam, Morgan McSweeney deployed the word ‘change’ and the Democrats tried the word ‘joy’. It didn’t work for the Democrats because not enough people in the states wanted ‘joy’ - they wanted revenge, which brings us to the masochism of voting for Reform.

Imagine a child wants an ice cream, their parents say no and the child is left angry about not getting what they want and their lack of agency - perhaps in a hot moment they might even start hating their parents. After a while the parents see how upset their child is and offer an ice cream, but the child screams ‘neaaww!!’ and knocks the ice cream out of their parent’s hand and on to the floor. That’s masochism, any parent will recognise it, the child is too into hating their parent in the moment to take the thing they really want, such moments need careful handling.

Many (most?) people in the UK don’t get much careful handling, they are consistently told in both word and deed that their happiness is irrelevant, perhaps this is a hangover of empire, but more saliently it is why the UK consistently ranks as one of the most unhappy nations in Europe. A shocking but normalised backdrop of familial, educational and neoliberal socioeconomic squashes, dehumanises many Britons, seeing them as little more than throwaway units of consumption and production.

One can see from this standpoint, why many focus on the (wilfully over-hyped and politically weaponised) topic of economic migration that is portrayed as further diluting an already anaemic sense of belonging and adding to a sense that to a certain establishment, working class Britons are as disposable as a used vape. Reform voters may be muddled about the motives of Farage, but they ain’t wrong about that last bit.

The throwaway working classes of Britain, face accusatory pressure from people (usually in comfortable positions in the media, government / politics) that they must remain vigilant about (and indeed accept responsibility for) the hurt feelings of a wide range of people in OTHER groups.

It’s easy to see how exhausted white, heterosexual males scratching an increasingly precarious living in a nation that has never cared about their feelings, might resent the quivering sensitivity demanded of them for gay rights, trans rights, people on the ‘spectrum’, ethnic / religious minorities and all the rest. They might just think that being in the majority ethnic group in the UK is actually a curse rather than a benefit, after all there are no government grants for organisations combating discrimination against the white-van-man, no benefits for people in work who lie awake at night worrying about having to put their car repairs and urgent dental work on their credit card - quite the reverse, these are the people that late stage capitalism loves to exploit to the max.

Now Reform are not any kind of an answer for the precariat (they’ll make it worse), but it is nigh on impossible to explain this to Reform voters and here is why:
Reform voters (and many voters for all the other parties) are often not making an evidenced based judgement but an emotional one, they quite understandably HATE the establishment that dehumanises and discards them and more than anything they want to STICK IT to that establishment, they don’t WANT to check the credentials and plans of their chosen champions and the more that smug liberals tell them they should, the less inclined they feel to do it.

This is the masochism, what matters is not healing or hope, but the hatred (carefully cultivated for decades by the billionaire owned media) for what they see as a shadowy triumvirate of invaders - immigrants, the woke and the loony left.

The British political / media class has nobody but itself to blame for the looming triumph of the Farage / Trump playbook. For decades voters have been promised change and got nothing but more of the same and worse. The lived reality of the political clock in the UK stopped under Thatcher and has not changed since. Those parties like Labour and the Lib-Dems who delivered more status-quo neoliberalism are particularly to blame.

Reform voters will soon have the rare pleasure of sticking a plastic straw up the noses of at least some of the establishment, it doesn't matter to them who benefits or even what happens next as long as Starmer, the immigrants and the woke get shafted by it.

This mostly blind back-lash that Farage is surfing has been long in the making and I doubt much can be done to mitigate it now, but for those minded to try...

...start by trying to understand the emotional landscape of Reform voters first, hear and acknowledge their pain, respect their concerns and fears, listen to their frustration and frayed sense of betrayal and try to offer more hope than a one shot stab at revenge. This job has been made very difficult by identity politics and decades of betrayal from faux left wing hustlers like Blair, Brown and now Starmer but there is little to be lost from the effort and perhaps everything to gain.

Sometimes political change is more about a heartfelt commitment to listening and healing than it is about winning the argument. The Greens, now the champions of the left-liberal progressives, would be especially well served by remembering this.

OP posts:
Summerhillsquare · 06/05/2026 17:25

matresense · 06/05/2026 12:15

@Dominoodles

I personally think that the Green Party is worse, when you look at the fact that over 30 councillors are under a cloud for their antisemitic bile. Look at Zac Polanski and his “some Jews perceive themselves to be unsafe” as if it’s all about perception. Reform is not keen on mass immigration and I think some of their rhetoric is very distasteful, but the Green party is egging on Jew hatred (and worse, frankly). Both have economic policies that don’t survive contact with reality, but it’s the sectarianism that would make me choose Reform over the Greens (along with the idea that we should have unlimited immigration, which is a recipe for disaster and will create the circumstances for unrest).

Aye, it's well known there are no anti-Semites or racists of any kind in Reform! Let alone wife beaters, cheats, takers of bribes or general thugs.

Imdunfer · 06/05/2026 16:49

Imdunfer · 06/05/2026 16:47

Which part of my careful explaining to you that the UK was far, far worse in its Covid response that any other European country do you think was "wrong"?

The bit that puts us well under half way down the deaths per 100,000 league table for Europe?

The first line is a quoteand by under read "less than" or "above", the word I chose first is ambiguous.

Underthinker · 06/05/2026 16:48

Firetreev · 06/05/2026 16:40

What is it then? They're either masochists, racists or thick. Unfortunately, I think a lot of them are a combination of the latter. The average IQ is 100 which means around half the population probably has an IQ lower than one hundred which is quite frightening.

The way IQ scores are calculated and standardised means that there will always be half of people below 100.
So not really frightening.

Imdunfer · 06/05/2026 16:47

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 12:37

You are, once again, confused.

Which part of my careful explaining to you that the UK was far, far worse in its Covid response that any other European country do you think was "wrong"?

Could it be that we hold the unwelcome record for the most deaths?
Or the care homes debacle?
Or the fact our prime minister held parties during lockdown?

Only a die-hard Tory or an absolute halfwit could celebrate the UK's Covid response; I'm still trying to decide which one you are... 🤔

Which part of my careful explaining to you that the UK was far, far worse in its Covid response that any other European country do you think was "wrong"?

The bit that puts us well under half way down the deaths per 100,000 league table for Europe?

Firetreev · 06/05/2026 16:40

ErrolTheDragon · 06/05/2026 11:32

It’s not masachoism, that’s deliberately causing yourself pain. I don’t believe that’s what Reform voters or before them Brexiteers actually intend even if it’s the result.

What is it then? They're either masochists, racists or thick. Unfortunately, I think a lot of them are a combination of the latter. The average IQ is 100 which means around half the population probably has an IQ lower than one hundred which is quite frightening.

PeachOctopus · 06/05/2026 16:20

Perhaps there is a political price to pay for ignoring what voters want?
Everyone who wanted low immigration and voted for the Conservative Party were let down. Since Cameron they have adopted a pro-immigration globalist agenda.
Farage is just a rebirth of the Conservative Party before Cameron, Thatcher would probably be in Reform it’s not that radical.

Threeyearoldkids · 06/05/2026 16:20

CreativeGreen · 06/05/2026 13:57

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks

Are you saying that's what immigrants and refugees all do?

No, of course they aren’t all like that.

I have been an immigrant myself, in 4 other countries. I entered legally. I had my own health insurance. I paid for my kids schooling. I never broke the law and I was never entitled to a single benefit.

I was a guest.

Anyone found after entering illegally, was either kicked out or jailed. If you broke the law your permit was cancelled and you were jailed till your country of birth kicked up a fuss about your treatment and they sent you home. They had zero tolerance.

I actually fully believe in immigration. We need it. However, I believe it should be very strictly handled as mine was. What I don’t agree with is letting in criminals. Do you really think someone who rapes just got here and started doing it? Or, did they have to leave their own country because they were in trouble and their options were seek asylum in soft touch UK, or be held accountable, in whatever way their own country/ culture deals with things.

We should welcome our share of genuine refugees, the majority of which should be women and children.

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 06/05/2026 15:14

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 15:04

Yes, both Trump and Reform are effective tacticians, they wouldn't be the danger they are, otherwise.

The Greens going after the non-English speaking voters, whipping up their grievances and playing up their cultural bigotry's, nothing dangerous there, no siree Bob.

GoingToTheGardenCentre · 06/05/2026 15:08

I'm voting reform. I'm a woman before you ask and no I think it's quite sensible.

Why shouldn't strangers asking to live in our land (or not asking if they come via small boats) be put in a detention centre. We should vet them properly and only allow them in if either a) they benefit the country or b)they are genuine refugees fleeing (note- anyone who has come from France to the UK is not fleeing in fear of their life as France is a safe country).

Why are we paying France to police this matter. Why not employee our own people (jobs and employment) and do it properly. We could spend money on our navy which would help the general defence of our country and they could be used to defend our coastlines from this issue as well. How many of our young men have no job - we could train them up, give them purpose and ambition. Lots of jobs in the navy - my BIL was an engineer and part time diver in the navy.

Detention centres should be basic. I mean if you are really fleeing for your life being in a safe place with a basic cot bed and basic food and no danger would seem like heaven and I can't imagine anyone who is genuine, complaining about having to go through this. More likely they would be weeping with relief. People who are coming because they have skills we need would likely be processed quickly and only be there a week or so anyway.

Or how about our police. It has been decimated. The number of front line officers is scarily low which is why they don't attend shoplifting or lots of anti social behaviour. Why not make it a desirable job again and give our youngsters hope and ambition. The police need proper funding and arming properly and respect needs to be brought back to society.

Welfare - I mean this is a disaster. It needs to be sorted and I don't think anyone on here does not know what the issues are.

NHS - it does not work anymore. It has money thrown at it and waiting lists are still huge and GP appointments are unavailable in some areas. It needs to be changed.
What's wrong with us all paying a subsidised amount and be actually able to get quick and efficient service. Reform are at least acknowledging the fact the NHS needs to be changed. I hate the fact ambulances take ages to come, A&E is a disaster, GP's are all going private anyway.

The UK is currently heading for bankruptcy. Yes we could print our own money but that would be a disaster for inflation not to mention the signal it gives the markets. However we currently pay more than Greece, Spain and Morocco to borrow. Growth is stagnant, inflation is going to be a big problem soon so we need drastic change. We need someone who understands the economy and who can make tough decisions. How long do you think we can keep borrowing each money to pay interest on our capital owed.

Will reform do this. Well labour haven't. The Tories had their shot. Greens are a joke. I mean seriously. Yes it would be lovely to save the planet but open borders - the country is bursting at the seams already. Housing shortages, busy roads, schools not coping, NHS not coping, not enough police etc. Can you imagine what would happen if we actually said our borders are officially open. Young, brown men with no skills and no morals it seem would be arriving by the shipload. No to mention what the markets will do if a very left wing government gets in.

I've been called stupid for voting reform. I'm been called uneducated, racist and I want all the disabled children to die in the streets according to some posters. (I actually think genuine disabled will benefit if we get the scroungers/NEETS back to work). I don't think reform are perfect and I'm sure there will be issues and some unrest as change happens. We are broke though. If we don't try and fix it, the IMF will anyway.

SionnachRuadh · 06/05/2026 15:05

pontefractals · 06/05/2026 15:00

There is also the issue that the OP appears to think he or she was writing an op-ed for a student paper, rather than a post on a message board. Think of your audience.

Edited cos I forgot which board I was on, but I still think this was misplaced/badly thought out.

Edited

I think it's been moved, but still really not pitched to persuade an audience that doesn't already agree with everything the OP says.

It reminded me of those moments on the Hugo Rifkind show on Times Radio when Hugo and his panel look at an opinion poll and spent a minute or so wondering whether they're out of touch, before coming to the conclusion that no, it's the voters who are out of touch.

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 15:04

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 14:03

The point I am making he was smart enough to go after the right groups and the swing states.

That's what Reform are doing.

Yes, both Trump and Reform are effective tacticians, they wouldn't be the danger they are, otherwise.

pontefractals · 06/05/2026 15:00

There is also the issue that the OP appears to think he or she was writing an op-ed for a student paper, rather than a post on a message board. Think of your audience.

Edited cos I forgot which board I was on, but I still think this was misplaced/badly thought out.

pontefractals · 06/05/2026 14:54

As a life-long socialist I will never vote Reform. I will also never vote Conservative. I think the opening post is a long and dull piece of self-righteous scolding from the school of, " everybody who disagrees with me is WRONG" and is very unlikely to win anybody over to the OP's point if view.

Underthinker · 06/05/2026 14:43

OP if you think Reform voters are people angry at being let down by mainstream parties, and the focus should be on "healing", - then is comparing them to angry toddlers wanting an ice cream going to help?

Monty36 · 06/05/2026 14:27

What was a disaster for the political world in this country was the absolute refusal for implementing Brexit. Because those whose responsibility it was to do so decided the decision was wrong and they knew better.
The delays and hold-ups the not really Brexit at all was a very poor dynamic for people to watch.

And younger people in particular sat and listened and watched the whole saga and lost trust in democracy. What is the point of voting if the vote is not respected ?

Whatever your thoughts on Brexit and I do not want to get into the rights and wrongs of the result, the whole lack of implementation, dragging of heels etc showed those in Westminster in a terrible light. Vote and it is pointless.

That is a problem. A whole generation of young people who have tuned out.

Imdunfer · 06/05/2026 14:21

Ah, the OP is one of those people who didn't spot that before Labour took over we had been growing our economy faster than France or Germany and who thinks if we hadn't left we would have grown by an additional 5% in spite of neither France nor Germany achieving those rates of growth. How sweet.

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 14:03

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 14:02

Not to the US's system, but I think the results show a very divided country, not any kind of overwhelming support for MAGA & Trump.

The point I am making he was smart enough to go after the right groups and the swing states.

That's what Reform are doing.

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 14:02

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:47

Number of votes is not relevant is it.

Not to the US's system, but I think the results show a very divided country, not any kind of overwhelming support for MAGA & Trump.

CreativeGreen · 06/05/2026 13:57

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks

Are you saying that's what immigrants and refugees all do?

1dayatatime · 06/05/2026 13:52

I would vote Conservative over Labour, Labour over Reform and Reform over Green and would definitely vote tactically.

I deliberately missed out LibDems as I have no idea what their policies are other than "not being the other guys".

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:47

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 13:45

The US 2024 voting split was much closer than you suggest: Donald Trump received 77,303,568 votes (49.8%) while Kamala Harris garnered 75,009,233 votes (48.3%).

Number of votes is not relevant is it.

BreezyMoose · 06/05/2026 13:46

NormalAuntFanny · 06/05/2026 13:01

I enjoyed your post @BreezyMoose and mostly agree with it.

It's interesting that a lot of the comments (if you can call astroturfing comments) are either 'u ok hun because I can't read' kind or the insistence it's LLM generated and of course it's all the EU's fault.

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

I'm inclined to agree.

And whilst I do genuinely doubt that Mumsnet is thus infected, social media is awash with the clamour of bot accounts that are pro-Reform. That noise will die back very, very sharply after the locals have closed.

As to MN, I'm inclined to agree with your first assertion, that the majority of contrary posts are by those who either can't - or are disinclined - to read my opening post, which is intellectually lazy but so frequently the case on most online fora, not just MN, or they are they are feeble attempts to disregard what's been written on the assumption that "it's AI" or "ChatGPT". That excuse is equally intellectually lazy, but seems to be alarmingly common these days when faced with a coherent, lengthy piece of text.

Which, I'd say, is arguably part of the problem. We have been so assaulted, so consistently, by generated garbage on our various social accounts that many people - quite understandably - are now triggered into manufactured outrage and find it difficult to critically look at the facts.
Not to get too tin-foil hat wearing, I'd suggest that that is precisely the position many in the political spectrum want us in; easily complaint, simple to bait, and fighting one another rather than those we should be unified in our opposition to.

But then, I imagine somebody will be along shortly to claim this post is all AI generated... 🙄

OP posts:
TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 06/05/2026 13:46

Threeyearoldkids · 06/05/2026 13:19

I don't want to live in a country where every day we have up to a thousand illegal immigrants land on our shores, and SOME of them go on to gang rape our girls and women. Others arrive here legally and still go on to commit heinous crimes.

I don't want to live in a country where certain communities cannot be criticised or held accountable for their actions against our young girls and women or their hatred against Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where our politicians are more concerned about our police using force to stop a terrorist, than the reasons why that terrorist felt entitled to try and kill Jews.

I don't want to live in a country where the issues you have raised have become habitual in our society.

I have lived on other countries and they just wouldn't put up with the shit that we put up with.

So, I have looked down the list of parties on the ballot for tomorrow in my area and I cannot see one of them that is going to address my above serious concerns.

What I really want to do is either vote Conservative or Labour and they will start making the hard decisions to deal with the points above. However, THEY DON'T WANT TO LISTEN.

I like your ice cream story, but I have another one.

Imagine you were a teen who lived at home with their mum, and she moved her boyfriend in. You didn't like his behaviour, he got favoured over you, and his views/ culture did not align with yours. He was a bit physical, and he made lewd remarks. You mentioned it to your mum and you were told to suck it up, and that is his culture. You spent the next few years trying to broach the subject with her, but she wouldn't listen and then blamed you.

One day you came home and said you'd spoken to your dad, and he said you could go live with him, and you were moving out. Your mum was shocked and upset and didn't see it coming. She blamed you for blindsiding her, and being prejudice against her BF and called you a racist. You leave.

This is how I feel. No one is listening to me, or people like me, so I can either do nothing, or make them listen by joining what is hopefully a lot of other people to finally make them listen.

Edited

⬆️ this 💯

Can't be said clearer
Can't be said enough

I don't want to live in the dystopian, lawless, boundary free world the Global Left are peddling.
Utopia is a pie-in-the-sky stupidity, so it follows that anyone who votes for it is pie-in-the-sky stupid.

AntiRacistFella · 06/05/2026 13:45

coulditbeme2323 · 06/05/2026 13:23

This post literally says if you don't agree with me then you are wrong.

Reform are targeting the working class who don't feel counted.

I am a dual citizen, and saw it in the last elections.

Kamala targeted the wealthy Manhattan voters, because that's what mattered to her. She didn't care about Birmingham Alabama, and all the rest of the "hillbilly" towns.

How did that go for her?

The US 2024 voting split was much closer than you suggest: Donald Trump received 77,303,568 votes (49.8%) while Kamala Harris garnered 75,009,233 votes (48.3%).

EasternStandard · 06/05/2026 13:30

NormalAuntFanny · 06/05/2026 13:01

I enjoyed your post @BreezyMoose and mostly agree with it.

It's interesting that a lot of the comments (if you can call astroturfing comments) are either 'u ok hun because I can't read' kind or the insistence it's LLM generated and of course it's all the EU's fault.

Presumably Reform has it's quota of Mumsnet workers beavering away.

I doubt it on this thread. But this type of post always features.