Could Labour adopt Green policies in response to their growing popularity?

Politicians generally want to be PM for two reasons:

1. Because of ego as it's the top job - once they get the job they have no idea what to do with it - Boris Johnson falls into this category (and I would also add Starmer, Polanski and Farage)
2. Because they have a vision of how to change the country- agree or disagree with their vision, Thatcher, Blair and even arguably Liz Truss (even though her vision was batshit) would fall into this category.

Nonetheless, I would sooner have a government that does what it believes to be right.

I'm not naive enough to believe that what they do, because they believe it's the right thing to do, wouldn't have to be sugar costed, but even so ...

for example, I bow to no one in my hatred of Thatcher and all she did and believed. But, she did what she thought was right (however bloody wrong it turned out). On the other hand, I'm doubtful that Farrage, much like Trump, believes in anything much other than lining their pockets.

Being honest and doing the right thing doesn't win votes.

Telling people what they hear (even if it's undeliverable) sadly does.

But KS doesn't really have his party's support. He had to U-turn on PIP cuts, benefits cap and so on.
So every time he gets it right, he doesn't stand a chance.

I would rather have a party in government who did what they thought was right, rather than what was popular

The much bigger swing was to Reform so would it make more sense for Labour to implement policies which appeal to the voters who have abandoned them for Reform?

What a load of shite.

show me, specifically, the front benchers being made wealthy by any of the policies being put through now?

I will wait.

No. Aping the Green Party won't help Labour any more than trying to be Reform Lite helped them. They need to focus instead on serious strategies that will at least begin to address the many serious challenges that are facing the country right now. They need to stop squabbling amongst themselves and focus on running the country. And they need to get much, much better at communicating effectively about what they are actually doing.

The Greens and Reform are both popular because people are fed up with the traditional parties and want something different. They are not popular because they have credible policies that will actually fix anything - most people are not scrutinising them to that extent. Hence the bizarre scenario in which we have some voters wavering between Reform and Green. It is a style and a brand that people are choosing - not a serious agenda for change.

Polanski is just another populist like Farage, but just with a left wing flavour. Like Reform, the Greens are offering very simple solutions to very complex problems with very little serious thought about how they would actually implement any of their ideas. It's incredibly easy to promise the moon on a stick if you don't actually have to explain how you're going to deliver it.

The Labour Party's brand is now toxic, as is the Tory brand. I don't think they can easily overcome this simply by presenting a few populist policies. I think their only real hope of not being slaughtered at the next election is to actually find a way of delivering meaningful improvements in people's lives. A growing economy. A functioning NHS. Effective public services. Investment in defence. Opportunities for young people. A solution for social care. People feeling better off etc.

Given the challenges presented by Brexit, the Trump administration and the changing global order; our low productivity and the cost of government debt; our ageing population; the mental health crisis; the polarisation of public debate; and the looming threats from climate change, as well as the myriad other problems which we face as a nation, I don't rate their chances much. But I remain in hope because the alternatives are even worse than what we've got.

What a load of shite.

show me, specifically, the front benchers being made wealthy by any of the policies being put through now?

I will wait.

No. Aping the Green Party won't help Labour any more than trying to be Reform Lite helped them. They need to focus instead on serious strategies that will at least begin to address the many serious challenges that are facing the country right now. They need to stop squabbling amongst themselves and focus on running the country. And they need to get much, much better at communicating effectively about what they are actually doing.

The Greens and Reform are both popular because people are fed up with the traditional parties and want something different. They are not popular because they have credible policies that will actually fix anything - most people are not scrutinising them to that extent. Hence the bizarre scenario in which we have some voters wavering between Reform and Green. It is a style and a brand that people are choosing - not a serious agenda for change.

Polanski is just another populist like Farage, but just with a left wing flavour. Like Reform, the Greens are offering very simple solutions to very complex problems with very little serious thought about how they would actually implement any of their ideas. It's incredibly easy to promise the moon on a stick if you don't actually have to explain how you're going to deliver it.

The Labour Party's brand is now toxic, as is the Tory brand. I don't think they can easily overcome this simply by presenting a few populist policies. I think their only real hope of not being slaughtered at the next election is to actually find a way of delivering meaningful improvements in people's lives. A growing economy. A functioning NHS. Effective public services. Investment in defence. Opportunities for young people. A solution for social care. People feeling better off etc.

Given the challenges presented by Brexit, the Trump administration and the changing global order; our low productivity and the cost of government debt; our ageing population; the mental health crisis; the polarisation of public debate; and the looming threats from climate change, as well as the myriad other problems which we face as a nation, I don't rate their chances much. But I remain in hope because the alternatives are even worse than what we've got.

I agree, the Greens are no longer the party of the environment. They rarely even bother talking about it these days.

I also think the Greens urgently need to tackle the antisemitism issue if they want to be taken seriously as a party fit for government. I wholeheartedly condemn what the Israeli government has been doing in Gaza and Lebanon, but that does not in any way make it even remotely ok to minimise or attempt to justify the horrific antisemitic attacks and abhorrent rhetoric that we are seeing here in the UK and elsewhere. If they pride themselves on being an antiracist movement, then that has to include all types of racism, including racism towards Jews.

What environmental policies? I’m struggling to remember when I last heard any Green rep talk seriously about environmental policies. Its become the party of choice for those kicked out of Labour for antisemitism.

Its not the first time this has happened - the old Ecology party is the only other political party I’ve ever joined (apart from Labour). I joined when Militant held an iron grip on Labour. Then Kinnock kicked out Militant and they all trooped across to take over the Eco party which subsequently rebranded as Green to align with other European Greens.

Plus ca change eh?

As for the difference between anti semitism and anti Zionism - you might want to explain the difference to Polanski who couldn’t even bring himself to use the words “Jewish” or “Anti semitism” over the recent attacks but did find time to criticise the police for being insufficiently gentle with a murdering knife attacker.

They need to stop feeding the rhetoric that immigration is the cause of all our problems - it isn't, and pursuing that line won't fix anything for anyone. They do need to tackle the issues around irregular migration but that alone is not actually going to make any real difference to the lives of ordinary British people, for all that Reform would have you believe.

What would happen if the Greens were elected? I don't actually know tbh but I imagine that total chaos would ensue. I have a strong suspicion that they might realise once in power that most of their policies are wildly unworkable, so I suspect that what we'd actually get would be a version of what Labour is already trying to do. Perhaps with a wealth tax thrown in to make it sound better, and maybe some pro-trans legislation to satisfy their base. I think it would even more chaotic than the current Labour government, less competent (yes, that is possible!) and there would probably be even more in-fighting.

What would happen if Reform were elected? Well, I guess some of the clues can be found in Trump's America. I would expect to see a systematic dismantling of people's rights. The gradual erosion of our democratic institutions. Massive cuts to public services. Very aggressive immigration policies that would deeply divide the nation. The politicisation of the civil service. The privatisation of the NHS. Liz Truss style economic chaos. Isolationist policies. Zero action to tackle climate change. Wide scale corruption without accountability. Billionaires getting richer while the rest of the country suffers.

That is, of course, if Reform can get its act together sufficiently to actually deliver any of its policies. It seems that our local Reform-led council is too shambolic to be able to actually do anything, so we are simply stuck in a state of paralysis without anything moving forward. Oh, I think they did manage to take down a Pride flag somewhere, or something, but that seems to be the extent of their local achievements.

I think either of them would cling on to power for grim death and monetise it in much the same way that Trump has done. They both use the same approach to claiming any challenge as “fake news” or a personal attack. The short term attention economy is much more powerful than it was in previous generations.

I feel very sorry for a lot of the councillors (from any of the main parties) who have worked hard over years to improve their areas within incredibly tight spending parameters but will see their seats going to ranting idiots with no real interest in local people.

I can’t see either Reform or the Green Party remaining in power for five years. We had two general elections in the same year in the 70s - we might see it again.