Why is socialism viewed so negatively in politics and media?

Most current public sector DB schemes are fully funded now and require very high contributions from the scheme member.
The LGPS actually returns a profit.

Public schemes were not affected by Gordon Brown, i'm talking about and i presumed you were, the death of DB schemes in the private sector.

I went from having a predicted DB pension of around 15k per year to 5k but contributions stayed the same..... the deferred scheme almost went under too.

Its simple maths, DB schemes relied on higher interest rates, Bond values and people not living into their late 80s/90s....

I am a retired recently teacher but about to start supply. I’ve never told classes what I vote. I taught English and Media and both required that students understood socialism and capitalism, for instance, Inspector Call for literature, I, Daniel Blake for media, Animal Farm for y9, that sort of thing. As I believe compassionate capitalism is possible, (but largely non existent) I believe I was able to achieve reasonable balance in my explanation . I would shut down any comments about the supposed benefits of Reform though as I believe that party is a threat to the protected behaviours that schools must maintain. Education and curriculum is mostly centre left. Or at least ideas that were left once are now mainstream. When I started teaching section 28 hadn’t been repealed and my cohort of student teachers were really worried about it. Our tutor told us our biggest responsibility was the welfare and safeguarding of children in our care. She said LGBT kids (it stopped at T in those days) were statistically at higher risk of mental health issues and suicide so we should do our best to ensure they weren’t othered or marginalised. I broke the rules of section 28 as much as I could. I had to teach section 28 when I taught the gay magazine ‘attitude’ for A level media. I didn’t choose to but it was in specification to teach it for context. I was factual and didn’t express opinion but I didn’t have to, the facts spoke about what Thatcher was for themselves. I don’t teach history but she’s covered in units about AIDS, the Cold War and miners strike and I don’t believe in a complimentary way but again, the facts speak for themselves - don’t they? Woman was poison. My English teacher was left wing and didn’t hold back, I loved his lessons the ideas he discussed. This was in the early 80s, we didn’t expect to grow up to be honest, we expected to be fried by the war mongering of Thatcher and Reagan, racism was rife, homophobia was rife, as working class kids we didn’t expect to progress. Tell what wasn’t there to hate about Thatcher?

Think about it, if a DC scheme investing in the same markets as a DB scheme can only pay out around a 1/3rd of that of a DB scheme.... where is the other 2/3rds coming from???

It's coming from the tax payer.

Defined Benefit schemes are almost all only in the Public Sector and unfunded.

That's because they are unaffordable.

@Wizeman That's what is meant by "in real terms". It's adjusted for inflation. So it does matter. The pot has not shrunk, that's a story that people are being sold in order to make them accept being poorer.

FS (DB) schemes were on the way out long before Brown, mainly because of life expectancy, poor returns, esp in Bonds & low interest rates.

As you say Brown was the final straw but he just hastened their end.

Think about it, if a DC scheme investing in the same markets as a DB scheme can only pay out around a 1/3rd of that of a DB scheme.... where is the other 2/3rds coming from???

I don't begrudge anyone taking adv of x or y, we all would, its the constant grasping for more that pisses me off.
The moment anyone suggests removing even minor things from pensioners, they are screaming and shouting, yet they are the first ones to say 2 child cap should be reimposed.

I'd means test triple lock, introduce NI, scrap free prescriptions... but it would have to be done cross party... so wont happen.

Damned with faint praise there!

I'm always right, just as you're always wrong!

Doesn't matter if we have the same amount of money because everything costs so much more money.

"And yet we financially support large numbers of unproductive people coming in or who have come in to the country and send vast sums to other countries, often ones that are doing pretty well. Inequality will only increase given the increasing numbers of those on benefits and the overall low wages of those immigrants that came in via the Boris wave."

That's just not true though is it. The main drivers of inequality are widely agreed to be things like capital income, housing costs and wage stagnation. Immigrants are typically net contributors and we spend a tiny and decreasing proportion of GDP on foreign aid, in exchange for a lot of soft power internationally.

According to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore. Poland is about to overtake us.

And yet we financially support large numbers of unproductive people coming in or who have come in to the country and send vast sums to other countries, often ones that are doing pretty well. Inequality will only increase given the increasing numbers of those on benefits and the overall low wages of those immigrants that came in via the Boris wave.

We are still a rich nation. In real terms, GDP per capita is the same as in 2008 and roughly twice what it was in the 1980s. We have stagnated but we have not got poorer.

In terms of falling down the ranks, most economists agree that the main drivers of this are low investment and brexit. Comparable countries that have overtaken us include much of Northern Europe, most of these countries have a higher tax burden and better investment

If the typical person feels poorer than they did 20 years ago that is due to rising inequality. The pot of money is the same but it is now distributed differently. Moreover, high inequality pushes up asset prices, especially housing. Ordinary people in the UK now spend an enormous proportion of their income on housing, especially if they are trapped renting. This makes ordinary people poorer and is recognised as a huge drag on growth.

@Alexandra2001 I’m 70 and I cannot remember plentiful council housing. Not around here - maybe in cities? However the older generation don’t recognise how difficult it is for younger people and are often selfish. We have had successive governments who have pandered to the grey vote (triple lock pensions for example) and it’s not sustainable. We are going to have to dig deep for defence spending and not welfare now.

That too. Agree.

We still think we are a rich nation and that we can support the lives of millions of non workers with taxpayers largesse. Whereas unfortunately we are rapidly slipping down the ranks.

Have you not heard of the expression "The rise of the modern day prole"? I suspect it may he you that needs to read a little wider.

Mainly Thatcher's creation lifting the working class up to the middle classes via house ownership and share ownership (I have no view to give on the merits). Obviously it eventually led to far too many people on the sunloungers round Europe and RyanAir but there you go.

If you think there weren't proles long before Thatcher you aren't studying enough history or reading enough older fiction.

I think the main problem is that the population has increased quickly and the supply cant keep up with the demand.

Final salary pension schemes for private industry were a product of capitalism. The last straw for final salary pension schemes was a tax raid made by Gordon Brown, removing tax credit on dividends from pension funds, removing £5 billion a year, every year, and the cumulative interest on the each successive year from when it was removed.

Gordon Brown ruined final salary pensions to grab money to pay for his socialist aspirations.

My generation had it all. I'm not sure you will believe me but I apologise to my younger friends that we took it all. We were offered your money by people of both political parties who were happy to borrow from the future to pay for vote winning things. In our defence I would say we had little choice in that, but I wish it hadn't happened.

You are absolutely right for once. We were spending the remaining wealth from Empire and using the peace dividend. But mainly borrowing from our children's future. Now things are coming home to roost (chickens, probably).

The rise of the modern day prole (to sort of quote Orwell) happened under Thatcher. And some may think that good and some may not.

Are you really a teacher out of interest? I'm always interested whether teachers with your views can keep them out of the classroom? That's an actual question by the way. I had a teacher that definitely didn't but her views were the opposite of yours.

Tbf it was a bit tongue in cheek but i'm glad i made you laugh in this rather grim world atm.

But my main point on what the older generation claim is undeniable plus they (generally speaking) had plenty of "Socialist" freebies throughout their younger lives....

Free FE and HE education, Available NHS Dental Care, Plentiful Council Housing, access to Final Salary pensions, lower state retirement age....

Yet despite this, have then voted to remove all from the younger generation.... must be Cognitive decline... which if research is to be believed, starts for many in their 50s and 60s....

I think you'll find the move towards conservatism happens far earlier than could be accounted for by cognitive decline but thanks for making me spit coffee on my screen with the laugh you gave me.

I've heard it all now, you have to have dementia to see the flaws in socialism 🤣🤣🤣

So a circular economy? Everybody starts their own business and people buy from them and they buy from the next person etc. Like bartering. Except there are those who have a lot more to barter with. If you and your children are about to be kicked out of your rental you have nothing to barter with so will take the first opportunity, no matter how crap, because if you don't someone else will. This is (one of the many) problems with capitalism, but you know that.

Probably more to do with cognitive decline and selfishness as those older people are only too keen to claim and demand everything they can get from the state...

WFA
Free Perscriptions
Demanding Energy Support
No NI
Pension credits

No problem at all, its hard to keep up on threads sometimes.

Because it doesn't work. Humans are programmed to be selfish by nature for their own survival. There must be a reason why people get more conservative and right wing as they age.
It is firstly that they have more to lose if capitalism were to collapse i.e. I want my workplace pension. It's earlier and better than the state one.
But also as you age, you become more cynical and realise people make choices and state imposed socialism isn't the answer to any issues really. Freedom of thought and action is what matters.

You’re right and I apologise.