Social security spending out of control?

You haven't really thought this through, have you?

Which countries would you use as an example of the model you think the UK should follow?

Very very few are unable to do anything. (I said there would be extenuating circumstances in serious cases).

Surprisingly, if a person needs money they reasses their situation and will take on whatever job is available. Other countries do not offer social security as a career choice and neither should the UK.

If everyone makes the effort the country would be a much better place.

For ‘fork’ read ‘token’ - and I don’t agree with Mrs T on much

I agree with pp that much of the current system effectively subsidises private employers and landlords, which is a crazy use of public money, but I don’t see any easy solution.

I agree with Mrs Thatcher that everyone should contribute, even if a small or fork amount. I think effectively taking people out of the taxpaying system in terms of income tax and council tax contributes to thinking wrongly about tax and contribution in general. I realise of course that everyone pays VAT and is a taxpayer, but I think it’s a big mistake to have a large segment of the population feeling they don’t have to contribute. It’s just as bad as the crazy right wingers who think because they don’t use the NHS or local schools or whatever that they shouldn’t have to pay.

Yes and this is where I disagree. Our population has exploded over the past 20+ years meaning our infrastructure has been completely over run meaning spending goes up to try and make up for it.

Then you need to ask why, when increased population means increased tax take, there has not been a commensurate increase in public spending for provision of services to accommodate the needs of increased population.

Imigration must come down

Yet time and time again, research proves immigrants are net economic contributors, contributing more per head to GDP than indigenous population, so if anything, if you want to better the economic situation in your country, you should be begging for more migrants, not fewer.

Since Brexit the UK has had to massively increase the number of work visas being granted to migrants from Africa, Asia, and the former Commonwealth countries simply to meet the requirements of the health services and care industry. If we hadn't done this, there would be an even greater shortage of provision that the crisis the care industry is already trying to deal with, the end result being UK citizens wallowing in their own filth simply because there is nobody to care for them. It's bizarre watching the issue continually be reduced to an argument about too many people arriving from foreign shores, when the entire problem stems from the fact that industrialising care provision turns it into a profit-making venture like any other, and therefore, costs and overheads will always be cut in order to drive and maintain profit and dividend. Private companies don't give a hoot about the wellbeing of granny or grandad, but they do care about making money, hence why care roles are invariably underpaid, the jobs are under-resourced, and nobody has the blindest bit of interest in doing them aside from people who can be tempted here from developing nations, yet when they do come here to care for our grannies and grandads, we turn around and pillory them for hogging and clogging our public services and start demanding the government sends them back home?

Make it make sense.

Why do we allow companies such as Amazon to pay no tax, yet they have employees claiming UC, so we subsidize Amazon?

Why do people shop there, it’s cheap at the point of sale but we pay in other ways.

And if people are unable to work? Or do not meet your minimum years worked requirement?

Immigration must come down

Immigration is favoured because of the fact they are relatively “cheaper” than natives eg we don’t have the cost of educated them and often they retire to their home country in retirement which is another saving.

@Wizeman what level should immigration be?

Here's some examples, bigger class sizes? Because of a bigger population and less schools being built,

Class sizes grew because of funding cuts not just because of bulge years.

We don’t really need more schools now as we don’t have the children to fill them

“The birth rate has been in decline since 2012 and by the end of the decade it is expected that there will be 400,000 fewer pupils in schools in England. Primary school numbers are already down by 150,000 since 2019.”

300k people meaning more demand, no hospital beds? Hospital is full because there is an extra 20k people living here now and no other Hospital has been built yet.

An ageing population which isn’t healthier puts a huge strain on hospitals & social care.

Universal credit paid dependent on years worked not money paid. Same for state pension (as it is). Time dependent means the low paid would still be looked after.

Why do we allow companies such as Amazon to pay no tax, yet they have employees claiming UC, so we subsidize Amazon? Why do we give out benefits to those who could and don't work - I worked in employment support so know the realities of this issue, including the government ignoring it regardless of the rhetoric! Why do we have a parliament that doesn't bring in rent controls and lets developers run riot? Why is so much in housing benefit payments needed, currrently running at £22 billionish?... Why do we build on green agricultural land and then wonder why the resident population struggle to find work, when there is no local labour market, or public transport? This whole issue is like a 1000 piece jigsaw, where a myriad of factors impact the final picture and yet our government, whatever the party, seem unable to roll up their sleeves and really address what ails us, or don't want to! We should all be able to have a good life, even pushing the pension age hits opportunities, but it seems like whoever the puppetmaster is, they want us at each other's throats, rather like they profit from it perhaps!!

And what does 'contribution' mean in your context?

Yes everyone wants great, free services but nobody wants to pay for it.
I believe there needs to be a shake up of free services. We simply cannot afford to provide all the services we do at the present tax levels.
I think the benefits people receive should be reduced. That doesn’t necessarily mean benefit payments but access to other freebies which those who work or have worked don’t get.
Those on pension credit should never be better off than those would have worked until state retirement age and paid into the system. That’s just one example.
Other examples include non working families being better off than working families.

It would need to be a gradual change and a run down period so the population know what to expect.

Numerous changes are needed not least to end speculation. Advance notice and clear communication is needed by all governments.

Look at how many people want to avoid all inheritance tax (the majority of which is unearned wealth due to housing) & still expect free social care because X down the road gets it free.

The issue is, the UK population expects a completely unrealistic standard of services and quality of living, and no government would ever be elected if they were fundamentally honest about this, so it's been a continual cycle of kicking the can down the road, borrowing, selling off public assets and natural wealth for injections of cash, and totally misguided "austerity" which has not achieved any of the intended outcomes and has only further hampered growth. All this for the purpose of trying to maintain the standard the public expects while also limiting tax burden, and pandering to business, landlordism, inherited wealth, and so on

This is true, much of the electorate don’t want the facts.

But you said you want to ger rid of all benefits.

And what will you do with people who haven't contributed, leave them on the streets begging?

Benefits would be for those who have contributed. You work when young no need for workhouses. This way opting out of the workforce yet expecting payment is not a legitimate option.

The pension age should not increase.

You think every country has stupid & incompetent leaders? And tax cuts alone would result in a baby boom?

Ok…

You can’t have it both ways. If people are expected to work full time to pay their taxes and bills, who can take on the full time care of a severely disabled child or adult? Most families really can’t afford to do the caring or pay for carers without claiming benefits.

Personally, I want to live in a country that looks after its most vulnerable citizens. I’d hate to regularly see children, elderly or disabled people living on the streets.

Edited for typo

Get rid of maternity leave and pay as well?

Or will you still offer them to married British women?

The UK has been in dire financial bother since 1939.

The issue is, the UK population expects a completely unrealistic standard of services and quality of living, and no government would ever be elected if they were fundamentally honest about this, so it's been a continual cycle of kicking the can down the road, borrowing, selling off public assets and natural wealth for injections of cash, and totally misguided "austerity" which has not achieved any of the intended outcomes and has only further hampered growth. All this for the purpose of trying to maintain the standard the public expects while also limiting tax burden, and pandering to business, landlordism, inherited wealth, and so on.

It isn't about the past 20 years, it's about a steadfast refusal to acknowledge the reality that the UK is no longer the world's foremost nation, and therefore people have no right to expect the sort of prevailing conditions that were taken for granted when it was. There is a degree of long-term intransigence on the part of successive governments, but fundamentally it begins with the fact that the public expects a level of service that it is not willing to underwrite, and isn't realistic given the financial reality of the UK.

This needs changing.

These people still NEED clothing, toiletries, haircuts/help with grooming, they are unable to work yet still exist as their own person and require funds/ing.