Gorton and Denton, what have you done?

If it was sectarian Reform would have won.
There are a larger than average number of South Asian and Muslim voters in the constituency bút they are still the minority. There are also areas which are more affluent and white. But there is a very large white working class population who are disillusioned with Labour.

Reform.are arguing that a lot of the Muslims in the area voted Green in response to Gaze and that "beat" the white working class Reform vote. But while it is likely a lot of Muslims voted Green, so did lots of white people. Because the Greens wouldn't have won otherwise.

If it's true that a lot of votes were a response to Gaza then that's not ”sectarian" voting. It's single issue voting. And the reality on the ground is likely to be more complicated than that any way because it always is. (Muslims can care about cost of living, housing and bins as much as anyone else).But even in single issue voting - you have a gay man of Jewish heritage, a white working class woman and some Muslims who all object to the same thing. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right. But it's not sectarian it's the exact opposite.

What they are really mad about is that the left behind working classes didn't do as they were supposed to and vote for them.

I just can't help but lol at this.

Why?
Most swimming pools have unisex changing rooms, unisex toilets are common now

While I don't agree with somethings that are The Green Parties official policies, in my view they got in because more people were in the "anybody but Farrage and co" group than any other consideration. So people chose the candidate they thought could best stop Reform.

a couple of days before the vote I saw an opinion poll putting Greens on 30%, Reform and Labour both 28%. A second poll asked if any of those asked would be willing to vote tactically. Only the Labour voters said they would.

It's interesting that in your original post you are so anti-Green Party, but what you wish for in this post aligns with their views so well!

@pineapplecrushedthere’s a point where engaging on Kemi posts isn’t worth it, they’re going to dislike her regardless of what you say.

Outside mn she’s picking up supporters and Starmer is losing them so I wouldn’t worry too much about it.

It's alright, pineapple already told me she doesn't want to engage with me any further, and I will respect that.

I shall lower my expectations.

Yep enjoy your evening instead @pineapplecrushed

someone has a bee in their bonnet about the Jay report......why don't you just be honest about what you think about that and say it instead of dancing round my post - moving from what has she done, to what has she LED on, to what has she 'achieved'. Spit it out.

Your mum - hey Cardiback, what did you do today?

You - well we've all been really working hard on the Post Office Act - the Horizon Scandal, and the Act got passed today! It quashes everyone's convictions!

Your mum - meh, but what have you really achieved?

Unbelievable.

I’m assuming you understand how legislation is drafted? Many government lawyers and civil servants will be the ones drafting it and checking it. The Minister or SoS will set the direction and the CS/GLD will tell them what exists and what route to take - primary or secondary legislation, what’s legal, what’s viable etc Do you rate all of them as highly as KB for working on two Acts of Parliament?

Lots of people work on them. Did she lead?
In my own work I’ve ’worked on’ projects but I wouldn’t claim them as my achievements unless I’d been the lead or contributed something well out of the ordinary.

because working on Acts that get passed isn't achieving anything?
This is so bizarre 😂

No, they are fine as far as they go. What did she achieve though? How far did she get, for example, with the recommendations of the Jay report when she was Women and Equalities Minister?

The election observers , Democracy Volunteers, who reported this did not alert polling staff in any of the polling stations in which they claim this took place. The polling staff did not witness any events themselves. They would have been able to react if informed at the time. There was a police presence in all polling stations throughout the election. Any breaches of the law could have been acted on if reported at the time. And the votes could have been challenged and cancelled.

Electoral Calculus, a well-known, respected and independent polling predictions organisation, have questioned the methodology used by Democracy Volunteers in calculating the percentage of illegal voting.

Even assuming the figures quoted by Democracy Volunteers are accurate, the amount of illegal family voting would not have affected the outcome if all those votes were cancelled. The Greens would still have a majority of thousands. Many informed observers have stated that family voting is a grey area, and hard to define, unless another party accompanies the voter into a covered ballot booth.

There is a post earlier in the thread from someone complaining that the polling booth was a table with a cardboard partition. Easy to see how a family, maybe unacustomed to voting, had moved towards a similar table set up, giving the impression they were going to vote in unison. And recorded as family voting.

Which is all waffle. The mathematical facts of the matter is that the voters of Gorton and Denton rejected Reform by a stunning majority. Even if all the "disputed" votes were discounted.The idea that Farage is claiming that the election was stolen, and is supported by sections of the media, is an attack on British democracy itself, and the British voting public. The Mail was the paper that supported Hitler, up to the eve of World War Two. I personally would prefer to wait for the findings of the Police investigation. Which is being supported by Zach Polanski. The leader of the Green Party.

Maybe the fact that the loser of the election is saying it's been stolen, despite the evidence to the contrary, is a confirmation of why the voters of Manchester obviously distrust him and his party.

Working on isn’t achieving. However it’s obvious that you can’t name anything she’s achieved so it’s pointless engaging with you.

She wasn’t closely involved in the Post Office Horizon) bill, she just attended debates. She was more involved in the other two and the CPTPP is probably her best known and substantive achievement. She also wasn’t secretary to the treasury (which is the chancellor), she was a junior minister during Covid. I think it’s a valid question though why you find her achievements persuasive. I personally don’t find KB that impressive, although she’s grown on me of late. I liked the way she stitched up Jenrick and she is very smooth at accepting criticism.

I wouldn't engage with someone who wrote 'I expect you to list them' either.
Plenty like Kemi, and her popularity is growing.

I listed things she worked on.
You just don't like my answers. Up to you.

How do you feel about Reform sending out leaflets in Wales which are only in English?

Oh i did look. I haven’t found much. Which you sort of back up by saying she did loads but not giving a single example of something she lead on.

if I state I am 'proud of her achievements' ?
I said she 'got shit done'
2 of you asked what she 'did'
I said what she did/worked on.
then there was a pivot to a debate re opinions about whether any of the things she did was an improvement and whether I was 'proud'.
I don't want to engage with disingenuous people. Have a good evening.

The Greens have rejected the "open borders" label as a pragmatic approach, instead advocating for a "managed" humane, and safe immigration system that supports refugees and allows for controlled movement

They want to focus on safe routes, ending detention, and tackling root causes of migration, opposing the "far right" rhetoric

I mean maybe you prefer that people shout at hotels?

I find that if people confidently assert that a particular politician is competent and capable they’re usually able to trot out examples of their accomplishments to back themselves up. I already have an opinion of Badenoch and I’m very interested in why yours is so different.

Im genuinely curious how it’s sectarian in your view? Muslims in this constituency chose not to vote for the candidate representing a party that has said they would remove ILR and have at least hinted at repatriation of non-citizens. It seems entirely sensible for people who would be negatively affected by Reform policies, or Labour’s reform lite policies, to vote against them. Instead they, along with voters of other faiths and ethnicities, voted for a white woman, representing a party led by a gay Jewish man. How is that sectarian?

And as for political materials in other languages - how do expect people to integrate if we ignore the barriers? Politics should meet people where they are and support and encourage them to engage in the community. Make political materials in Urdu for people that don’t speak English and also to show a sense of solidarity and relatability with people who feel marginalised - who by and large will be women and older people. If you include those people, you make it more possible for them to integrate, which is economically and socially desirable. It just seems so obvious to me.

And don’t forget that they’ve said they would like for there to be no borders and for everyone who moves here to have a house to live in - there’s already a housing shortage so that will mean building loads of houses all over the beautiful British countryside - including land which is used for farming and food production. Which will inevitably mean having to IMPORT more food. Not very environmentally friendly ehh? But then they are only the Green Party by name so I guess it doesn’t really matter 🤷‍♀️