Gorton and Denton, what have you done?

so we are now on 'did she lead?'

sounds to me like you wouldn't accept her 'achieving' anything unless she was the sole person doing it - which of course isn't the case in any government.
Getting the post office convictions quashed was heroic - Hollinrake himself said that he approached her to intervene to get things moving and as a result of her input he backed her leadership bid.

But I get it. You don't like her. Could have just said that.

Because this is your job and so you already know it well?

I just can't help but lol at this.

My question is still why though? Female changing rooms still have cubicles, so how is it different to the unisex changing rooms at the pool?

I'm not trying to upset you, I'm genuinely interested why you feel so strongly about it

Yup, which was never going to be enough to win.
And "the traditional working classes of the UK have been let down by Labour and are no longer a represented by the Left" is a key part of their narrative. Their whole strategy is to position themselves as the party of the white working class and to do that they need to take on former Labour voters. They didn't and I think part of the motivation for their banging on about Sectarianism is an attempt to distract from that.
Labour are in trouble too of course.

And don’t forget that they’ve said they would like for there to be no borders and for everyone who moves here to have a house to live in - there’s already a housing shortage so that will mean building loads of houses all over the beautiful British countryside - including land which is used for farming and food production. Which will inevitably mean having to IMPORT more food. Not very environmentally friendly ehh? But then they are only the Green Party by name so I guess it doesn’t really matter 🤷‍♀️

Reform mainly picked up the Tory vote plus some from the left.

I think Reform hoped that they could pull a lot of the disillusioned Labour voters over to them but even though some probably went over (looking at the results), it wasn't enough. Maybe if it was a different candidate. I don't like Reform but I also think Goodwin was a bit of a disadvantage to them. It's not the "posh Southerner" thing so much (no-one can help their accent) as the fact he comes over as quite supercilious and didn't have much connection to the area. There are likely many Green politicians like that as well, but Hannah Denton isn't one of them.

I think Reform hoped that they could pull a lot of the disillusioned Labour voters over to them but even though some probably went over (looking at the results), it wasn't enough. Maybe if it was a different candidate. I don't like Reform but I also think Goodwin was a bit of a disadvantage to them. It's not the "posh Southerner" thing so much (no-one can help their accent) as the fact he comes over as quite supercilious and didn't have much connection to the area. There are likely many Green politicians like that as well, but Hannah Denton isn't one of them.

I see yes I think it was solidly a left, used to be Labour seat, so that wasn’t going to change that much.

Oh for sure! I think tactical voting will be with us for a while.
I only meant in this specific case if you assume (if) that some people wanted to vote Labour but voted Green for tactical purposes then you can play around with the numbers and "take away" some Green votes and "give them back" to Labour. So as the Green votes go down, the Labour votes go up and first Labour overtakes Reform into second place, then it overtakes the Greens so you have Labour 1st, Green 2nd, Reform 3rd but with tiny margins, then Labour 1st, Reform 2nd, Green 3rd.

Basically if the hypothetical tactical Labour voters hadn't voted for the Greens but had stuck with Labour then it might have changed the margins or the winning party but it wouldn't have been enough to give Reform the win.

But that's a by-election, in an election with higher turn outs it could be different and a lot of the voters were swing voters anyway. Some of the Green voters could swing Reform next time. Everythings very fluid.

I don’t think they wanted the Muslim vote, they didn’t want any other party to have it either.

I don’t think they wanted the Muslim vote, they didn’t want any other party to have it either.

I’m not sure what you mean here, one of them won’t always win in say the local elections coming up.

Perhaps Reform lost because they didn't put out a leaflet in Urdu? To try to engage with a portion of the voters in the area where they were canvassing. Oe did they think they could win the Muslim vote by ignoring the issues that concern them?

My question is still why though? Female changing rooms still have cubicles, so how is it different to the unisex changing rooms at the pool?

I'm not trying to upset you, I'm genuinely interested why you feel so strongly about it

If it was sectarian Reform would have won.
There are a larger than average number of South Asian and Muslim voters in the constituency bút they are still the minority. There are also areas which are more affluent and white. But there is a very large white working class population who are disillusioned with Labour.

Reform.are arguing that a lot of the Muslims in the area voted Green in response to Gaze and that "beat" the white working class Reform vote. But while it is likely a lot of Muslims voted Green, so did lots of white people. Because the Greens wouldn't have won otherwise.

If it's true that a lot of votes were a response to Gaza then that's not ”sectarian" voting. It's single issue voting. And the reality on the ground is likely to be more complicated than that any way because it always is. (Muslims can care about cost of living, housing and bins as much as anyone else).But even in single issue voting - you have a gay man of Jewish heritage, a white working class woman and some Muslims who all object to the same thing. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right. But it's not sectarian it's the exact opposite.

What they are really mad about is that the left behind working classes didn't do as they were supposed to and vote for them.

I don't mind unisex changing rooms if there are individual cubicles. I'm less keen on unisex toilets because a lot of men are gross. But the point of my post was to say that I don't want men in any single sex environments, regardless of how they might "identify".

Ironically the labour supporters didn't need to vote tactically. If you shift votes around between Labour and the Greens one of them always wins. But I think people expected the results to be much closer than they were.

If it was sectarian Reform would have won.
There are a larger than average number of South Asian and Muslim voters in the constituency bút they are still the minority. There are also areas which are more affluent and white. But there is a very large white working class population who are disillusioned with Labour.

Reform.are arguing that a lot of the Muslims in the area voted Green in response to Gaze and that "beat" the white working class Reform vote. But while it is likely a lot of Muslims voted Green, so did lots of white people. Because the Greens wouldn't have won otherwise.

If it's true that a lot of votes were a response to Gaza then that's not ”sectarian" voting. It's single issue voting. And the reality on the ground is likely to be more complicated than that any way because it always is. (Muslims can care about cost of living, housing and bins as much as anyone else).But even in single issue voting - you have a gay man of Jewish heritage, a white working class woman and some Muslims who all object to the same thing. Maybe they are wrong, maybe they are right. But it's not sectarian it's the exact opposite.

What they are really mad about is that the left behind working classes didn't do as they were supposed to and vote for them.

Lots of people work on them. Did she lead?
In my own work I’ve ’worked on’ projects but I wouldn’t claim them as my achievements unless I’d been the lead or contributed something well out of the ordinary.

While I don't agree with somethings that are The Green Parties official policies, in my view they got in because more people were in the "anybody but Farrage and co" group than any other consideration. So people chose the candidate they thought could best stop Reform.

a couple of days before the vote I saw an opinion poll putting Greens on 30%, Reform and Labour both 28%. A second poll asked if any of those asked would be willing to vote tactically. Only the Labour voters said they would.

Why?
Most swimming pools have unisex changing rooms, unisex toilets are common now