NHS should be a co-pay system.

The boomers are the large group and are already old. Generation X and millennials are smaller cohorts, so reduced numbers of elderly.

It didn't "work better" in 2008 and 2010 when negligence and incompetence killed my mother and FIL respectively.

But most of the spending occurs in the final years of life and the population is unhealthy and ageing!

100% agree

Aside from immigration we have a falling population. Less people, less treatment less medical staff required.

Absolutely not. It was made clear that the private hospital’s priority was its profits (It was Spire, btw). They wouldn’t even call an ambulance because they have to pay for it if an ambulance is called to a private hospital.

The NHS paid for the NHS bit. And to be fair, I was already on the NHS list for the same surgery by the same surgeon that did it privately, I just went private because of the wait. I’d have had the same complications in the NHS hospital had it been done there.

Let's be honest though, flooding the country with extra people wont help either.

I would be happy with a co-pay system

Um no. Unless you are expecting life expectancy to suddenly drop this problem is not going away.

How much older do people live now compared to the 90s? Come on its a couple of years difference. Now onto the aging population, you are correct. Young people simply cant afford to have any children mainly because of house prices. House prices are again effected by imigration, no supply lots of demand. The solution isn't to flood the country with Young imigrants.

This is a short term issue. The elderly will pass away in the next few decades ending the increase and fewer people will follow equalling less demand.

However, mass immigration means the demand will increase. All these youngsters get old and ill like everyone else. There is the issue.

Increase in population, yes. But you are (deliberately?) not mentioning our ageing population, living longer with more long term health needs.

Yes, it is down to immigration. Plenty of people already in the UK could work for the NHS. Glad to see many on mumsnet are now seeing this.

Co-pay is one way of expressing it - state health insurance is another.

France for example has comprehensive, mandatory state health insurance for all residents, including immigrants who’ve lived there for at least 3 months. It generally reimburses about 70-80% of medical costs with most residents taking out supplementary insurance to cover the rest. Those on low income or benefits or have long term chronic illness or disability are exempt.

"Massive increase in demand" = the population has increased at a rapid rate over the past 20 years

"Lack of investment" the nhs budgit has increased by 384% since 1999 from 50 billion to 242 billion.

The reason the nhs has failed is because of more and more people (demand) and not enough medical infrastructure being built (supply). I've worked on construction sights in hospitals. To refurbish a hospital ward it can take upto a year depending on the size and resources available. Imagine building a hospital. Plus it can take well over a decade just to get planning permission. It then takes years to plan, by which point the hospital is probably obsolete or behind modern standards. Then it costs years to build. The whole process of building a hospital can take close to 20 years!!!! Now imagine your population has increased by 20% in 20 years!!!

This is not sustainable

Wake up people

The only reason the nhs is broken is because people have entered the country quicker than we can build hospitals and infrastructure. It worked better in the 90s and 2000s with half the money.

So who pays for the NHS bit?
Does the private bit pay for that from their insurance?

It’s really not.
Private health insurance has just gone up by 4.4%, approved by the gov. For a family of 4 it costs anywhere from $250 a month up to $1000 a month (£125-500) depending on your level of coverage. If you need to see a physio it might cost you $300 but you only get $170 back so $130 a visit still. If you need to take your child every fortnight that’s a lot of money.

Doctors appointments are very hard to get & a lot of Dr’s have their books closed. A short 10min appointment at my Dr’s costs $70 of which I pay $40 once I get a rebate. Longer appointments cost more. An ambulance costs $600 (£300) in my state, you get some back depending on the level of insurance you have.
Waitlists for free healthcare is insanely long just like the UK. The wait times at A&E are also ridiculously long as ppl can’t afford to pay to see a Dr or get an appointment so go to A&E.

Nowhere has a perfect model of healthcare.

Having just experienced a relative in hospital for over 4 weeks and subsequently the person passing away its not the medics causing the issues in the NHS. The suits are calling the shots and they certainly shouldn't be anywhere near medical decisions.

One of the crackpot ideas was to replace paper menus with an iPad. Seems OK until you try it in practice, the housekeeper was explaining how the trail went. A suit wanted it so she told him to come and do it himself. After 3 hours he'd managed 3 beds for various reasons. Paper based took less than 30 mins.

Copay is an appalling idea, it puts people off getting treatment early on and so ends up costing far more.

My trust have changed the threshold for treating uti's and have placed a 3 day only on gp prescribing. You arrive at the hospital and it's full of people with complications from uti's.

It already is
Labour let GPs be self employed business

It certainly isn't bollocks, you've got plenty of examples of gross wastes of resources up thread. Whole sets of scans repeated because they can't be seen in another area, patient history not available in the eye department which has been monitoring glaucoma for 10 years, constant rerecording of history by every new doctor you see, people ready for discharge blocking beds because councils won't take them, new hospitals being built as monuments to civic pride instead of utilitarian and cheaper rectangular blocks like the private hospitals are. It goes on and on.

Throwing more money at it is not the answer.

My elderly mum needed emergency treatment while on holiday in Greece for early onset pneumonia ( respiratory rate 40) We rocked up quite late at the local clinic a mile away ( open 24hr and numerous of them on the island ) saw a doctor almost straight away, was given emergency nebuliser, steroids and bloods were taken ( results back within the hour ) She was sent away with prescription for antibiotics and inhaler for which she paid £40. Made rapid recovery.
We we’re thankful this didn’t happen in the UK as it would have meant a 14 hour wait in A&E and associated fatigue and dehydration, possibly a prolonged stay in a hospital corridor and by then she’d have deteriorated so much that she’d likely need IV fluids and IV antibiotics ( if she made it )!

The NHS is just too big now and there is no accountability unless you’re a clinician. GP services are a farce too ! It’s an embarrassment.

Sorry, but uk healthcare is dire. Not sure who looks to the uk as a shining example. Part of my job entails looking at comparatively standards of care in different disease areas, and throughout the span of my 20 year career the uk has fallen rapidly behind other developed markets to the extent we frequently dont include it in our analysis because it is such an outlier,

And on a personal note as someone who has lived in 6 different countries, each with their own healthcare systems, each with their own strengths and failings, the uk is by far the worst I have experienced. I am settled here for various reasons, but my biggest fear is getting seriously sick in the uk and having to rely on the nhs

Obviously you have never worked in NHS teaching hospitals……
And the French oay a fee everyone they visit the doctor. And are far far healthier than the Brits.