Anyone else think Starmer leaving just creates more turmoil?

Starmer will go slowly, not quickly, because:

1. The bond markets are already panicking at the prospect of a change in PM
2. The backbenchers don't want to risk losing their jobs
3. A change when Iran and Ukraine are riven by war would be irresponsible
4. The Cabinet has so far remained loyal and will push for an orderly transition
5. Starmer is stubborn

I am indifferent to Starmer. He's not turned out well but I don't understand why he evokes such distaste as he's so bland.

The UK has massive financial issues mainly because the last 20 years has been funded by getting into more debt. The debt is huge and it’s only going to get worse if we carry on spending more and more on state pensions and nhs for older people- there’s not enough young people paying taxes to pay for the expanding older population. And that’s on top of all the other problems due to aging infrastructure etc. And wherever you believe it’s man made or not, climate change is going to throw more problems at us that will cost a lot to resolve

The huge debt means the government is slave to the bond markets.

No political parties are being honest about it because the public won’t vote for more tax to help pay to resolve this issue. Reforms ideas will not touch the sides.

Maybe you are lucky and have some sane candidates, but anyone willing to throw their deposit away to campaign on a single issue is at least fairly obsessive.

This was kind of my point - that no one independent (and I don't mean nutty single-issue campaigners) will get elected so they rarely stand. It happens sometimes but these days it is usually a former counsellor who is disaffected with their party but doesn't want to join another party. Even then they don't get elected.

Fifty years ago, it was more common to have independent counsellors in a local election winning one or two spots. These days it will never happen. If you know you will lose, why would you stand? You have no chance of penetrating the consciousness of the voters because you lack campaign money and resources.

You may read all the manifestos but you are in a minority. Most voters pitch up and vote for their party.

They got voted in on lies with regards to the economy remember how they blamed the tories for their handling of it...since then every budget its been omg there is billion black hole. Next budget bet there is another big blackhole. You can't blame that on the Tories. We were sold on they would grow the economy they havent. The economy was starting the grow under su ak finally and now back to square one. There have been so many u turns..

All the things they moaned and complained about the tories they are now doing themselves.

This isn’t a good look for Streeting but they didn’t have a growth strategy- hence the mess they are in with various U-turns, taxing all sorts of people they shouldn’t be etc.

No government has ever taxed their way to growth. Why are they stupid enough to think it would work? The wealthy will move away because they are highly mobile. Even for just a few years. They aren’t living next door to their Mum and rely on family for childcare.

My DH and I are high earners although being self employed means there were lean years. We never claimed any benefits, lost child benefit years ago. If I was 20 years younger tbh - I would be considering moving abroad. Not forever as things change. I have two members of my close family who have done this.

One was an expat and did come back and has now got another role in their late 50’s. Kids are grown up and no elderly parents to consider. The husband earns in excess of £300k. They are now moving out of the UK. Now he won’t pay any tax in the UK. The Greens stating they will tax and tax the wealthy. Not if they move you plonkers!

I agree. I don't like him. But he has to be replaced. There are people.a lot worse. Obviously Farage and Badenock are on that list but also in the Labour Party. It's not clear that there's anyone with a very strong vision. Who the press won't destroy (to allow in the worse options).

The markers are no longer accepting bets on Starmer going before the end of the year. The markers know he's going to go, they're just concerned at when and who will replace him.

At the moment the smart money is on Angela Rayner taking over in March

It's due to both lol

The Wes Streeting / Peter Mandelson messages are extremely damning for the government.

They show ministers were lying when they were publicly praising the economy last year - both of them were secretly saying the economy is in a mess and Reeves has no plan for growth.

They were also acknowledging that they can't tell voters a reason to vote Labour that's actually true.

Blair and Brown.

The List

1. Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
2. Low mortgage rates.
3. Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
4. Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
5. Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
6. Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
7. Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
8. Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
9. Employment is at its highest level ever.

What? We've had 14 years of Conservative mismanagement since Blair and Brown! The current shit show is down to that.

Hmm, I make a point of reading the manifestos of the local independent candidates because I’m a bit politically homeless and would happy vote for one if their policies appealed.

Round here at least, they are universally absolutely batshit (literally think aliens are coming to save us, or think we should move to a fundamentalist Christian theocracy subsistence farming model, or incels, or cross-burning racists, or in favour of some sort of African separatist movement). Maybe you are lucky and have some sane candidates, but anyone willing to throw their deposit away to campaign on a single issue is at least fairly obsessive.

It was always going to be a shitshow after Blair and Brown and Covid.

It was always going to be a huge task turning around the shitshow ship of 14 years of Tory plundering. Labour needs more time and if he resigns, the country will almost inevitably fall to Reform and certain chaos. Starmer is the most experienced prime minister we’ve had for a long time and does have integrity.

I think we've kind of got into the habit of swapping Prime Ministers every couple of weeks and have forgotten that actually it's pretty unusual to do so.

Starmer isn't great domestically and hasn't properly apologised but for international diplomacy generally he is very good and that's important right now.

I'd much rather we got rid of the bloody royal family than the PM, over Epstein.

That’s about right. We have a government from a party of hopeless fools. It doesn’t matter which fool comes forward to take over from Starmer. They’re all shit.

So better to stick with the shitty fool we know.

What on earth has happened to politics? How have we got to this? A bunch of losers in charge.

Basically a known traitor and spy. Great judgment on the part of our government.

I want him to get on with the job. Sniping and creating drama by backbenchers never end well

Starmer is hopeless and not a politician however he is the best of a bad bunch.

Says it all about the Labour Party. How some posters can try and defend him is beyond me. He cannot be enjoying this. He is not cut out for politics.

She's got a lovely complexion and a substantial bosom. They'd like her.

Edited for spelling.

Agre with you OP, he needs to be left alone to get on with it. I do think he’s made mistakes and misjudgements but at the moment he’s the best of a bad bunch.

So true! Imagine the Labour left force Starmer out due to Epstein and we end up with Farage who was actually FRIENDS with Epstein. I'm no Starmer fan but he's miles better than Nigel.

This has already been covered ad infinitum up thread.