Is it possible that Mandelson might bring Starmer down?

Criticisms of Farage are valid, he may be our PM in 3 years time, what he thinks on Putin/EU/NATO very much matter.

Reforms policy on deporting 600k migrants inc those with indefinite leave to remain, is right wing, their candidate for Denton (Matt Goodwin) things women & men who don't have children should be taxed....

Sunak? well we had 6 months of recession in the Q3/4 of 2023, he allowed HS2 to continue, then cancelled it, costing 29billion, food inflation at 30%.... hyper energy bills.... then there is Covid loans fraud, his freezing of tax thresholds, messing up the student loans... all criticisms you make of Reeves but when Sunak did similar its "all what a great guy!"

Doubtless you'll claim "external factors" but when Reeves says that... no such leeway given.

Surely the irritating fly in the ointment is that Angela Rayner told us all that she wanted to ensure her ND child had a safe space forever. And now, it doesn't look quite that way.

Starmer said he would resign if the police found him guilty of breaking lockdown rules

A deliberate strategy placing extra importance/pressure on the police decision.

The Met Police were 'out of time' to investigate Starmer's voice coach sessions during lockdown.

Boris broke lockdown rules repeatedly

Clearly not - he only received one £50 fine.

So why shouldn't we be scrutinising his admiration for Putin and views on Nato?

Were you worried about Jeremy Corbyn and Seumas Milne, Labour's director of strategy and communications 2015 - 2020? Did you vote Labour in 2017/2019?

https://www.stopwar.org.uk/article/far-from-keeping-the-peace-nato-s-masters-of-war-are-a-threat-to-it/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298550/Red-handed-Photograph-shows-Jeremy-Corbyn-s-pro-Kremlin-spin-chief-held-Putin-s-iron-grip-propaganda-summit.html

Farage lied about his residence in Clacton belonging to him. How was this not worse than what Raynor did?

Why don't you write to HMRC and ask them to investigate?

Absolutely- compared to what the alternative leaders are within the Labour Party, SKS is by far the best option.

Although I still think Sunak would have been a better option.

Not really what I would call a discussion - Peter Thiel only replies; “Of what?”
A very one-sided chess game, to use your analogy.

Gosh no I agree with @Pineneedlesincarpetthough on RS

Much as it pains me, we had that with Rishi. I am looking back at that time slightly wistfully these days which surprises me.

I may be in a minority of one, but I do believe that SKS is a decent and competent person who wants to do a decent job. And I am saying that as a Tory.

Compared to Milliband (three failed attempts at Labour leadership) or Rayner (still hasn't paid her SDLT to HMRC), SKS is a f*cking genius. I'm not a fan girl, but in this moment, relatively honest and fairly competent seems to be the best we can hope for!

Starmer is currently relying on McSweeney to take the fall as he did Sue Gray over freebies.

He relies on people going and shifting the blame to save his own skin.

Starmer is far worse with this current debacle and I think you've forgotten Lord Ali. And the worst thing Angela R did was regarding her son's trust.

Also Boris was judged by the notoriously political independent Sue Gray....So Im not 100% the man who was fresh out of ICU with a new born was spending a huge amount of time partying realistically.

If thats all the left have on NF no wonder they are dredging unprovable tales up from his school days.

@Pineneedlesincarpet Starmer said he would resign if the police found him guilty of breaking lockdown rules. And he would have done (because he would have been toast of he then hadnt) but they didn't. Boris was forced to resign, he didnt do it because he felt any remorse. Starmer has shown poor judgement, but Boris broke lockdown rules repeatedly and unashamedly while people were burying their loved ones. Starmer may now decide to resign. The right wing press have held him and Raynor to much higher account than anyone on the right. You are just seeing it through a certain lens. Farage lied about his residence in Clacton belonging to him. How was this not worse than what Raynor did? The bbc are petrified of him and never ask him any awkward questions.

The problem with not scrutinising Farage is that he is likely to become PM in a few years. So why shouldn't we be scrutinising his admiration for Putin and views on Nato? Why should we ignore countless people from his past when they said he has been a racist bully? Particularly when he shows no sign of remorse.

I think politicians should be accountable. I just think you need to hold one to the same standards as another. The left hold the right to much higher standards than the left apply to themselves. For example I remember how pious KS was about Boris eating a piece of cake. He said that Boris as a result was unfit for office and should resign. Tony Blair said "no more sleaze no more cash for questions no more lies" of the Conservatives and then as soon as New Labour were elected were plunged into the Ecclestone affair, cash for honours, Mandleson's first sacking....

The NF criticisms are really clutching at straws. Firstly hes not actually in government. Secondly his view re Nato is a widely held view. Not one I agree with but hes allowed to have it. He is not in charge of our military or making decisions regarding Ukraine. If he has an alternative view he can put it in the manifesto and see what voters think.

They are not far right. What policies of Reform's are far right?

Farage excused Russian invading Crimea, he stood up in the EU Parliament and argued this.. its on public record, his best best was jailed for taking Russian money... Mandelson is being, in part, pilloried for association...

Farage then said the EU and NATO provoked Russia into invading Ukraine, giving Putin the excuse he needed....

I think thats the inexcusable & giving Putin has threatened to launch Nuclear weapons at us all....

Reform are not centre right... they are further to the right than the AfD

You wish to wait 3.5 years before action... wow! thats some admission.

Why would a Tory Government not act on the 22 findings? they had 2 years..

Labour have enacted or begun to, all 22 findings, thats why they were against a new inquiry... time wasting, these poor girls have not got time.

if you look at some of the messages referencing Brexit and Farage, there appears to be some evidence of foreign interference in Brexit.

I googled ‘is foreign interference in UK illegal” and there are quite a few laws and rules about this including;

National Security Act 2023: This Act established a specific "foreign interference offence" that makes it illegal to engage in conduct for or on behalf of a foreign power with the intention of influencing the UK's democratic processes in an illegitimate way (e.g., through misrepresentation or coercion). The Act also introduced a Foreign Influence Registration Scheme (FIRS) to bring transparency to foreign political influence activities, with a failure to register being a criminal offence

Therefore if there is evidence that Farage is responsible for foreign interference in Brexit then the police should be looking into it.

I dont think its hero worshipping. I think people just want a bit of honesty in politicians and that means that accusations should be evidence based. Thats all. If you start equating Nigel Farage with Peter Mandelson then you are diminishing real bad behaviour.

@1dayatatime I said there have been calls for a full investigation into Russian interference into brexit, just google it (the one they did previously left lots of unanswered questions). Again, i am simply saying Farage isn't innocent and all of this hero worshiping of him on here is frankly naive. Farage is a long time supporter of Trump which shows poor judgement at the very least given his association with epstein.

Seriously- if there is evidence on Russian interference in the Brexit then please post a link to it. Otherwise it is simply your unsubstantiated opinion.

Secondly stating that "Farage is up to his neck in it" despite again no evidence is yet another personal bias without any facts.

If you are insistent on prioritising personal bias over facts then maybe you should be volunteering for jury service on the retrial of the Filton six ?

Ok. Not the subject of the thread. And NF is not Prime Minister or in government. Let's wait and see if proceedings are brought against Nigel Farage.

@Pineneedlesincarpetis it clutching at straws to be worried that Nigel Farage, who appointed to a high profile leadership role someone that took Russian bribes, shouldn't be our future PM?

And by the way, I do think Starmer showed poor judgement and should probably go. But NF gets away with far worse because he is in the pocket of the right wing media.

I think you're clutching at straws. And trying to liken NF to PM. The fact NFs name is mentioned is irrelevant without any proof he actually did something illegal. Let's try and get back to basics (ahem) on this sort of thing.

Of course appointing dodgy people doesnt seemed to have stopped Labour...

@Pineneedlesincarpet and let's not forget about this. Do you think of Farage as squeaky clean?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn8vnv3dk0vo

@Pineneedlesincarpet I never said there is proof of anything illegal. But some of the world's most powerful and wealthy men discussing Brexit like they are playing chess with the UK economy. And there have long been calls to do a full investigation into Russian interference.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/jeffrey-epstein-brexit-peter-thiel-b2912853.html?test_group=lighteradlayout

Please can you tell us what that evidence is by quoting the messages? Because Im pretty sure if Farage committed a criminal offence the Guardian for one would be all over it.