Conservatives closing the gap on reform

Even Switzerland doesn't have free universal healthcare. It has a universal system which mandates private health insurance for all residents (but you get to choose your policy, since it's with a private company. ) There are out-of-pocket costs like deductibles and copayments.

Even France doesn't have free universal healthcare. You pay upfront, and are reimbursed by the state for a significant portion (e.g., 70% for GP visits, 100% for some long-term conditions). People often use private insurance (mutuelle) to cover the remaining cost. People on low income don't have to pay upfront, and have it additionally subsidised - but only very, very low income people get it completely free.

I mean, what was that article talking about?!? This is a really normal model in Europe.

We don’t and never will.

Which was the point I was making. We agree again!

Pot kettle.

You're gaslighting us again I see.

But you agreed with when the link she included was inaccurate. Did you fact check that?

I don’t think I did. My post just happened to follow on from hers. You argued with my assertion that smoking related illness costs the NHS considerably less than tobacco tax raises despite actually quoting the figures that proved me right. The level of debate on MN is shockingly poor.

Yes I’ll be voting for Kemi, she’s been performing well recently

But you agreed with @ArseInTheCoOpWindow when the link she included was inaccurate. Did you fact check that?

Like I said, Japan and Singapore don't have free universal healthcare and aren't on that list. Those were just the two that came to mind (and then I verified). I'm sure there are others with similar co-pays and individually funded insurance (though often government-backed so that no one is refused cover, and with support - but often still not completely free - for those on low income).

Aaaaand more gaslighting. You think nothing of the sort because I fact check before I post and usually include a link. It actually pisses people off.

That's exactly what I think of your posts usually. Uncanny we both think the same!

Japan and Singapore are good examples. They have co-pays (30% out of pocket) or a mixed financing model, but with insurance backed by the government and support for people on low income.

They work very well.

I think free Universal healthcare is a good thing. We spend less per capita than many other countries.

We have to be disciplined about it though- or we will kill it. We have to allow NICE to say no to things, we have to insist on innovation and efficiency.

It’s purpose is patient care, not a vehicle for union extravagance.

Exactly. I don’t know what’s happened to MN these days. It’s full of confident assertions that turn out to be utter bollocks with a modicum of research and apparent amnesia about which party was in power when various events happened. Then there’s the pure fantasy. It’s just gaslighting.

Where are they?

This names the countries without it. The US is the only first world country not to provide it.

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/10-notable-countries-that-are-still-without-universal-healthcare.html

There are a lot of thriving economies where free healthcare is not universally accessible.

I think in your astonishment you've missed the point again.

Healthcare is a necessity. Free healthcare for everyone (the relevant word being "free" which of course it isn't really) is not a necessity.

The best system would work on behaviour and lowering requirements. We don’t have that.

We can afford some tax-funded services - including universal healthcare if that's our priority - but with an annual budget deficit of £131 billion and growing we clearly can't afford everything that some seem to consider a necessity (and which most people through most of history have not had )

Not without burdening our children with paying it for us anyway:

When Gordon Brown boasted that he had ended Boom and Bust - and we all believed that we'd enjoy eternal economic growth - then borrowing was a reasonable (ish) strategy, since we would grow our debt away. Now it's simply intergenerational theft.

So we have to prioritise. That's pretty much the job of government: to negotiate different wishes from different groups in society.

I mean, that is a really good point. The NHS doesn't seem to be improving health these days given how many people are going on benefits for health reasons.

Exactly. I think some people are living in the past and haven't realised what has happened to this country.

And still spend more per capita on healthcare.

The question is are we healthier or struggling? It doesn’t seem to be promoting healthier behaviour.

Which of the World's current top five economies have a completely "free" healthcare system like the UK? Most, if not all, other successful economies manage without a healthcare system like the NHS!

It’s not a luxury. It’s a necessity for economic health. A population that’s too sick to work means a failing economy. It’s astonishing that this even needs to be articulated.

Agreed