Introduction to Marxist thought?

I agree of course there are isar about inequality and the exploration of workers but I agree, Marx doesn't explain anything at all. It doesn't take human nature into account for a start.

Yup.

But having said that, I am pretty far left myself, in the modern colloquial way. I am not a socialist or communist.

I am in no way against all Marxist ideas, I just think Marxism itself is pretty poor.

I got banned from the reddit Marxism forums. The communists banned me :-) Because I was asking questions about the holes. And as you say, they would infight between themselves

And I don't think it helped that I do live in a communist country. They did not like that.

A vast amount of websites on Marxism are blocked in China by the way. I think that says a lot.

I think a lot of the issues with the Far Left of all shades is their complete lack of a sense of humour and their resulting inability to self reflect, and their complete wedding to a poorly explained ideology and unwillingness to compromise on their various entrenched ideas. They can't possibly see how ridiculous they look to the outside and how much they themselves demountable how unsuitable they will be to run a World order. Why does no one look at, for example the two British Communist Parties and think 'Maybe we are the problem here'?

Absolutely.

And your post really shows how Marxism can be, and is, changed to fit many agendas.

We saw that with the "battles", for want of a better word, between Stalin and Mao, over who was the successor to Marx.

While the Marxists, Leninists, Trotskyists, Stalinists, Maoists and others have been infighting over what Marxism is, and how it should be implemented, the capitalist world has just got on with stuff.

I ain't a capitalist by the way. It's a very flawed system.

So is Marxism.

Amazing.

Buy that fucker from Amazon...

Except that Animal Fsrm is Marxist-Leninism. Which isn’t Marx at all, or even Lenin.

Animal farm is a great book, in my opinion.

I find it amazing to read that, and then the " The private life of Chairman Mao", by Zhisui Li, Mao's doctor.

Orwell got so much spot on. Even though he was writing a commentary on the USSR, he unknowingly predicted what was to come in China.

Yes, The 'educated' proletariat become the new elite because they take over all the means of production, they just don't admit that's what they are. 'All are equal but some are more equal than others' as Orwell said.

Yup.

On something you said though. " ....until they can teach the uneducated masses how to do things like running factories,...."

The proletariat are already making stuff in the factories. They are running production, but they don't own it.

So for the proletariat to own the means of production, all you have to do is get rid of the Bourgeoisie who own it.

Marx did not appear to understand risk assessment though, just simple " what if ?".

For example, if we get rid of the Bourgeoisie who own the means of production, and give it to the workers, how do we stop the workers becoming a new elite.

And I think that is where his whole manifesto falls over.

As you say, certain groups can latch on to parts to justify themselves. All the new elite have to say, is we are not Bourgeoisie, we are proletariat.

And yes, when you say ".they just haven't got round to it...ever in the history of Communism", I totally agree. I don't think they can't, not without re-writing all of Marx, and actually defining what stuff means.

For Example. " To each according to needs".

The USSR done that, the CPC do that. But because " needs" was never defined, the system can't work. The elite leaders define what needs are, not Marx. And the leader's needs are very big.

I think one thing you can understand from reading the Communist Manifesto is how certain groups have latched onto it to justify their actions. So, for example, the 'dictatorship of the Proletariat', where suddenly the middle class intellectuals aren't the Bourgoisie but will be the Proletariat, but as they are more 'educated' they will own the means of production until they can teach the uneducated masses how to do things like running factories, then after that they will then redistribute the wealth amongst the people. However, once the 'Intellectual' proletariat get their hands on the means of production it somehow takes many years (a hundred or so) to get the poor uneducated masses to the level where they can own the means of production, so the intellectual Proletariat have no choice but to become the owners of the means of production and indulge in things like forced labour in order to educate the masses into how to produce things. The end will justify the means because eventually they will be better off. They are different of course from the Bougoisie of old because they eventually will redistribute their wealth to the masses, they just haven't got round to it...ever in the history of Communism!

I think I’ve just found my 2026 year long slow read. Thanks All! Capital! It is one of those books which I always intended to read and never did. I’ve read pretty much all the key texts to do with communism except this one.
I don’t have any good recommendations sadly as I’ve never read any good introductions but there seems to be some interesting ones here!

Trust me on this, Labour are not Marxist. :-)

Watch the budget next week, and the following economic fallout. Should be quite the education.

It's probably ok to trivialise it.

The CPC in China do.

It trivialises it though.

You need the whole package to understand where Marx was coming from and to put into perspective what happened after that.

Trivialising human tragedy, the curse of our time.

But the OP was asking for something accessible @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat - which is why I suggested this.

No!

Das Kapital has brought so much suffering to so many millions of people.
We might as well honour them and read the book proper, instead of a dumbed down version.

How about a graphic approach?

The Manifesto is just propaganda.

Das Kapital is quite readable, though.

Heavy on comedy and quite sweary!

The Origin Story podcast is doing a socialism season at the moment, there are 2 episodes on Karl Marx which are great.
www.podmasters.co.uk/origin-story

It's worth having a look on Ted talks. This is an interesting one from a former Greek finance minister. Not explicitly Marxist but he is an economist.
https://www.ted.com/talks/yanis_varoufakis_capitalism_will_eat_democracy_unless_we_speak_up

John Green does a series of 'Crash Courses' in different topics on you tube, I am sure there must be something on Marx.