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Original poster

Ukraine and Russia

41 replies

dwordle · 19/11/2025 18:36

I'm getting increasingly frustrated by NATO, Russia is constantly testing our resolve and despite our threats there's only one thing Putin will understand and that's a real show of force. NATO is the strongest force on the planet but what let's this down is our inability to make a decision.

We have pledged support for the Ukraine and the conflict is largely due to NATOs presence around the borders of Russia. So it's only right we step up and offer military assistance....even if it's just naval and air force....that alone would like tip the balance in Ukraines favour and force Putin to at least pause it's conflict.

OP posts:
Original poster
dwordle · 22/11/2025 21:19

Russian economy isn't growing, complete the opposite. The UK has nearly 200 active fighter jets, two air craft carriers, 150 battle ready challenger tanks, 100,000. Nearly 10,000 elite troops, 20,000 front like troops.

That's just the British.... Germany, France, Poland, Ukraine,

Russian economy is smaller than Spain, its economy is on the verge of collapse.

OP posts:
TheNoonBell · 22/11/2025 20:25

RoamingToaster · 22/11/2025 20:04

Can Russia afford the war? Isn’t a reason for the growth because of the war?

Show quote history

They can afford it more than we can, that is all that matters in war.

When the Russians realised the war wasn't going to be short, instead of appointing a soldier to be Defence Minister, they appointed an economist.

If we go to war without an industrialised economy things are going to go very wrong, very fast.

RoamingToaster · 22/11/2025 20:04

TheNoonBell · 21/11/2025 20:50

I don't think you realise how bad things are. We are in no state to get involved.

We have 130 warplanes, about half working at any time.

The army has no artillery as we gave it all to Ukraine. We have about the same number of tanks as we have generals.

We have 20 or so warships with about one quarter of those working at any time. We have more admirals than ships.

We have not managed to successfully test launch a nuclear missile for over a decade. The last test nearly killed the defence minister when the missile failed and narrowly missed the aging sub that tried to launch it.

In addition we have no air defence missiles at all, so Russia could take out our entire energy network in under an hour.

Don't beleive the financial BS put out by the media here. Russia can afford the war, their financial deficit is about 3% (ours is 5.7% and rising). Their debt to GBP is under 20%, ours is 110%. The Russian economy is growing at 4% ours under 1%. Taxes wise most Russians pay 13% (rather than 20% here) their top rate is 23% (vs 45% here).

Show quote history

Can Russia afford the war? Isn’t a reason for the growth because of the war?

Original poster
dwordle · 22/11/2025 11:58

No ..we can attack a non NATO member as long as it's legal. Spy ships etc are more than enough justification to take action....sink them.

OP posts:
sleepwouldbenice · 22/11/2025 11:11

Don't all members of Nato need to agree? So including the US?

Leavesfalling · 22/11/2025 11:06

dwordle · 22/11/2025 10:16

We have state of the art radar, we intercept all the time. We have surface to air missiles stationed all over Britain.....and we also have miles of water and land between ourselves and Russia.

We are still one of the most powerful countries in the world and Russia can't even replace it's depleted tanks.

Right now Russia wouldn't win a war with the UK while it's fighting the Ukraine.....

The bigger question is how China would react given they have currently some sort of alliance with Russia. While they wouldn't want a war with their main markets (the West) we dont know whether they might want to take the opportunity to assert themselves militarily or take Taiwan while Europe/US/NATO is distracted.

Slightly giving WW3 vibes....

Original poster
dwordle · 22/11/2025 10:16

We have state of the art radar, we intercept all the time. We have surface to air missiles stationed all over Britain.....and we also have miles of water and land between ourselves and Russia.

We are still one of the most powerful countries in the world and Russia can't even replace it's depleted tanks.

Right now Russia wouldn't win a war with the UK while it's fighting the Ukraine.....

OP posts:
TheNoonBell · 21/11/2025 20:50

dwordle · 21/11/2025 18:40

We are also a nuclear power and a member of NATO....this isn't about attacking Russia and more about removing Russian threats and helping the Ukraine remove the invaders. We are already at war with Russia and Putin has made that very clear

Maybe there are parts of the Ukraine under Russian control that may prove challenging to regain but the idea the Ukraine should roll over and accept a deal made by the yanks and Russia quite frankly is disgusting and a huge betrayal.

We need to show the yanks we actually don't need them and go it alone and put some muscle in where it's needed. Air and Naval Support for example.

Russia is weak, it can't afford this war and it's crippling their finances. Now is not the time to roll over

I don't think you realise how bad things are. We are in no state to get involved.

We have 130 warplanes, about half working at any time.

The army has no artillery as we gave it all to Ukraine. We have about the same number of tanks as we have generals.

We have 20 or so warships with about one quarter of those working at any time. We have more admirals than ships.

We have not managed to successfully test launch a nuclear missile for over a decade. The last test nearly killed the defence minister when the missile failed and narrowly missed the aging sub that tried to launch it.

In addition we have no air defence missiles at all, so Russia could take out our entire energy network in under an hour.

Don't beleive the financial BS put out by the media here. Russia can afford the war, their financial deficit is about 3% (ours is 5.7% and rising). Their debt to GBP is under 20%, ours is 110%. The Russian economy is growing at 4% ours under 1%. Taxes wise most Russians pay 13% (rather than 20% here) their top rate is 23% (vs 45% here).

Dabralor · 21/11/2025 18:44

NATO can’t just sink the espionage ship because it remained within the EEZ - it never crossed into British waters. Russia is absolutely allowed to do this; it’s just not in the spirit of international co-operation. If NATO were to sink it, we would technically be the aggressor and trigger conflict with a nuclear power.

Russia knows exactly what it’s doing. The lasers are potentially deniable too. They constantly goad and goad and goad, knowing that NATO can’t respond militarily without triggering a wider conflict.

Original poster
dwordle · 21/11/2025 18:40

We are also a nuclear power and a member of NATO....this isn't about attacking Russia and more about removing Russian threats and helping the Ukraine remove the invaders. We are already at war with Russia and Putin has made that very clear

Maybe there are parts of the Ukraine under Russian control that may prove challenging to regain but the idea the Ukraine should roll over and accept a deal made by the yanks and Russia quite frankly is disgusting and a huge betrayal.

We need to show the yanks we actually don't need them and go it alone and put some muscle in where it's needed. Air and Naval Support for example.

Russia is weak, it can't afford this war and it's crippling their finances. Now is not the time to roll over

OP posts:
TheNoonBell · 20/11/2025 16:38

Why would you want a wider and potentially nuclear war?

You do realise military assistance would involve young British people getting killed right?

Leavesfalling · 20/11/2025 13:16

Erin1975 · 20/11/2025 13:08

Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

NATO offering "real support" would be a declaration of war against a major nuclear power. Given the individual in charge of that country I doubt many people think that would be a good idea.

I do agree. But Ukraine was promised defence in 1994 by the US, Russia(!) and the UK if it was attacked. I do think we've messed up there. But for obvious reasons of self-preservation.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/11/2025 13:09

Erin1975 · 20/11/2025 13:08

Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

NATO offering "real support" would be a declaration of war against a major nuclear power. Given the individual in charge of that country I doubt many people think that would be a good idea.

Quite.

Erin1975 · 20/11/2025 13:08

Ukraine is not a member of NATO.

NATO offering "real support" would be a declaration of war against a major nuclear power. Given the individual in charge of that country I doubt many people think that would be a good idea.

Original poster
dwordle · 20/11/2025 13:04

Leavesfalling · 19/11/2025 18:41

The conflict isn't due to NATOs presence near Russia. Russia has always been an expansionist, problematic state. Ask the Chinese.

I agree but we gave them an excuse, I think Russia had taken the opportunity multiple times, Crimera, funding militias etc. But I think while NATO appears tactically strong our inability to make a unified response to these tactics has left the door open to Russia.

At what point do we actually step up and offer real support.

It's the same as Russian spy ships....if we honestly think they are a threat....sink them. Russia can't respond and wouldn't dare respond but while they think they can do it....then they will keep on doing so. If they see it as a declaration of war then let's have it because they have their hands full and I will guarantee you one thing, countries like Poland will happily put pressure on Russia.

OP posts:
Leavesfalling · 19/11/2025 18:41

The conflict isn't due to NATOs presence near Russia. Russia has always been an expansionist, problematic state. Ask the Chinese.

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