Why do the very same British leftists who claim that Britain needs to be in the EU as it is too small to go it alone want to constantly further diminish Britain’s power by giving up Chagos and other territories?

Fair enough.

But can I ask you, is there stuff you think might be above party politics ?

I do, and I think this is one of these issues.

I try to follow Indo-Pacific geopolitics, but my internet limits it.

No matter who is in power in the UK, the Chagos Islands are going to be difficult. But we did, as a nation, wrong the people who lived there. And we should try to fix it. Have to fix it, given the various court judgements.

National power, and influence on the world stage, needs a lot of goodwill, and goodwill can be expensive.

Compare for example the Royal Navy and the Chinese navy ( The PLAN), and where they can dock for supplies, shore leave, and general friendly stuff.

The Royal Navy can dock at many more nations than the PLAN can. Britain has to keep stuff going well with Mauritius, India, the USA, and the folk that will likely go back to Chagos.

Difficult to balance all of that I reckon.

So my premise on the subject differs from that of the OP. My premise would be, some things go beyond party politics. We must do the right thing. Or as right as we can get it.

As for GB news. The only thing they care about is hammering Labour. The actual issues don't matter to them.

Do you agree ? At least to the beyond party politics bit ?

In a previous post I referenced the competition for influence. I am in one of those competing countries, and Mauritius is a sort " sensitive" subject.

Google is banned here, but if I BING "Mauritian income tax point " I just get tax stuff. But if I BING "Mauritian income tax point GB News", I get this :

Chagos Islands: Mauritius Government faces collapse over 'surrender' deal - MPs warn BRITAIN is getting too much (gbnews.com)

It was a lucky guess on my part to add the GB news tag.

I see nothing about tax in that.

There is this bit though. " The treaty will see Britain fork out at least £30billion over 99 years to lease back the Diego Garcia military base."

Wait a moment.

Yes, the UK have to pay to lease the air base so the Americans can use it rent free.

Maybe your argument should be that the USA pay Mauritius to lease the base ?

It is a massive base. Takes up a substantial amount of the biggest atoll.

Alan your posts are fun but Im going to have to duck out now. Im not really engaging and I dont want to waste your time.

This bit here of your post, " ...Mauritius (a Chinese ally)....", can probably be linked to this part of the OP: " further diminish Britain’s power ".

I reckon it can be argued there is a connection.

Mauritius has not definitely connected itself to the PRC. As you know, India and the PRC are competing for influence, and Mauritius appear, to me anyway, to be playing them off against each other.

Seems a sensible thing to do.

And India are in the lead on that.

But the alignment does change each time there is an election. I think India has the stronger link.

But here is the thing. If Britain holds onto colonial territories, no matter the cost to anyone or anything, then it will actually diminish UK power, diplomatic power anyway.

Because when the UK does it's naval freedom of navigation through the South China Sea, the PRC points it's finger and says : " See the colonial Britain, trying to dictate the world order while it still occupies land illegally".

It takes a couple of rocks out of that big old bag of rocks, labelled hypocrisy, that our nation collectively carries around. And yup, pretty much every nation has a similar bag of rocks. We can make our's a little lighter.

And this that this in mind, does that not suggest that the UK returning the islands, will have a positive effect overall ?

Im cherry picking, yes.

We are paying for a territory that won't belong to us anymore. Which is different from your examples. We also have no money.

Just try googling the Mauritian income tax point which has been all over the papers. You said you had problems in getting information. Is that because its restricted or your WiFi is down and you can't look this up yourself? Its a little tiresome. The Mauritian government is about to fall because of the terms of the deal snd that they want even more from us so its fairly well known.

I’m sure certain people would call me leftist because I don’t take as gospel what GB News, Mail, express , telegraph tell me to suit their agenda. Whereas reality is I’m pretty much a realist and very much in the middle, have a business, am not particularly woke myself and am not of the ‘all shall have prizes’ mentality - that word irritates the pants off me, just as people with more right wing views aren’t all racist , illiterate numpties , not all with more moderate views aren’t’leftists’

So you are not taking in the whole premise of the OP ? Cherry picking ?

Do you have a link that says Mauritius will lower income tax on the back of UK payments ?

I think I said yesterday, FT reports 101 million a year to be paid, for however many years. Another poster on here said it's " £30bn over 100 years, inc inflation.".

I gave no idea how the inflation is worked out.

I can't see how 100 odd million a year causes increased income tax in the UK.

As the OP statement, or premise, is a logical fallacy,, I am going to use one here if ok : a whataboutism :-)

Uk has a fair number of overseas territories.

I picked one at random. St Helena. How much does the UK pay them per year ?

35.79 million. Link here : Joint Statement by FCDO and SHG | St Helena Government (sainthelena.gov.sh)

And that is just part of the amount. Open that link and "This announcement does not relate to other funding streams which include the Economic Development Investment Programme (EDIP), the Cloud Forest and other Programmes. These programmes allow us to implement vital infrastructure projects such as the new build prison, the renewable energy programme and the Rupert’s Port project. They also allow us to continue our work on vital environmental programmes..

Lots of numbers in this document.UK aid and the overseas territories.

CBP-9758.pdf (parliament.uk)

Overseas territories cost the UK a lot per year. Pitcairn Islanders get about 100 K per person in aid per year. There are only 40 of them mind. But apart from the stamps and honey they sell, their entire economy is based on uk subsidy.

And remember this ? When the UK spent 285 million on an airport for St Helena that can't be used ?

UK lawmakers lambast new St. Helena airport in South Atlantic | Aviation Week Network

Overseas territories cost a lot of money.

Whatabout that ?

Exactly. It just symbolises the dumbing down of discourse. Makes people sound stupid as they are unable to say what they mean without using a swear word.

She's set a precedent now.

God forbid someone should say fuck. That’s obviously much, much worse than racist name calling. 🙄

No need to repeat it in Parliament. We all know how to say the f word without saying the f word

Crasser still to call people vile racist names.

Leftist. Sigh. Makes my skin crawl like 'woke' does.

This is one of the many things I love about the UK - concise, cutting put downs, beautifully presented!

It reflects the general numbing down of discourse in this country. I see Shabina Mahmood has been effing and jeffing in Parliament yesterday. Although she was just repeating what someone said to her, its still pretty crass.

Britain does not have a military base there. The USA does.

What is all this American lingo infesting Mumsnet? Leftist?? In proper English we say leftwingers. Ditto ‘liberal’ being used incorrectly.

The EU didn't ever vote as a bloc with the UK on foreign policy.

The UN just voted on a legal opinion not a ruling. Its only because we currently have the rule of lawyers that we decided we needed to act against the UKs national interest. Pathetic

Incidentally the UN has had its day. Particularly bearing in mind who is on the Security Council. It has lost most of its moral authority which is why few countries pay any attention to it any more. We will need a new institution that isn't corrupted.

At the UN General Assembly

I'd suggest the Chagos deal clearly has absolutely no positive benefit for the UK and is a failure of statecraft. Labour being the one that rushed to agree it are the ones on the hook.

Its easy being in opposition. Now Labour have to take responsibility for failure on their watch (and obviously credit for any successes if there turn out being any).

£30bn over 100 years, inc inflation.

The Tories of course changed their minds, as they saw political gain in doing so, they negotiated the deal, much like they now do with x ch migration, all on Labour, you'd think no boats crossed on their watch and hotels were first introduced by Labour too.

The issue i have with the 'right is that anything good that happens under Labour is all due to Tory policies but anything (negotiated by the Cons) is on Labour.

See fall in legal migration

That's obviously not true.

Foreign policy is carried out by the UK and always has been. We aren't in a military alliance with the EU. We aren't in a political alliance and never have been.

Votes where?

The Chagos deal happened because of Brexit.
While we were in Europe, we had the EU votes behind us in the ongoing dispute with Mauritius over sovereignty of the Islands. Without the backing of the EU it became necessary to make a deal in order to protect our military based on the islands.

I wasn't really arguing about that (which I know is the subject of the thread but I haven't got much of a view). My main concern is the amount we, our children and grandchildren need to pay to Mauritius (a Chinese ally). Enough for them to lower their own income tax rates.

Giving up control of Diego Garcia will probably turn out to be a mistake down the line though.

Oh dear Lord...

Another part of the premise that does not apply to me is that I do not think "losing" the islands in any way diminishes Britains power, no matter what way that power is defined.

It's an uninhabited atol in the Indian ocean.

The military base there is American.