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Politics

Rachel Reeves can’t win, can she?

679 replies

anothervoter · 14/11/2025 10:24

After days and days of negative press and chatter about income tax going up, complaints on Mumsnet and across the media, today’s reports are that idea might be dropped and now she’s being accused of rattling the markets and making the cost of borrowing increase.

Honestly, genuine question- what can she do?

OP posts:
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Southernecho · 17/11/2025 07:09

EasternStandard · 15/11/2025 16:12

Ok so do you want taxes to go up?

Have never heard of the economic models for growth where taxes are used to raise investment and increase growth?

I asked you earlier: Do you want tax cuts funded by spending cuts?

Where has that ever worked?

TeenagersAngst · 17/11/2025 06:25

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 23:48

They’d have to if it became their legal responsibility.

Not sure why it’s become so complicated that solicitors are now official tax collectors? Even if this theory were remotely accurate, the professional involved would more likely be an accountant.

I imagine in reality, it would just happen through your self assessment. You have to declare your residency status on there so if that changed you would then need to declare your assets as if they had been ‘disposed’ and a taxable charge would be made on those.

Whether your money was or wasn’t in a UK bank would be immaterial - you would still be responsible for the tax due.

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 23:48

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 22:46

Ha! No solicitor in their right mind would agree to be responsible for assessing and paying a client's tax. It will always be the responsibility of the client to pay or instruct a solicitor to pay.

They’d have to if it became their legal responsibility.

SammyScrounge · 16/11/2025 22:55

anothervoter · 14/11/2025 10:24

After days and days of negative press and chatter about income tax going up, complaints on Mumsnet and across the media, today’s reports are that idea might be dropped and now she’s being accused of rattling the markets and making the cost of borrowing increase.

Honestly, genuine question- what can she do?

Resign. She is unfit for the post of Chacellor.

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 22:52

@BIossomtoes Not generous — just accurate.
Changing a rate on an existing tax overnight is not the same as creating a new tax-collection regime.

Why is the government not actively working on it now, because it is so difficult to implement. They haven’t ruled it out, but this government can’t/won’t rule anything out.

A budget change can’t turn an entire profession into tax collectors and I am sure solicitors wouldn’t want to become tax collectors.

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 22:46

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 21:41

If the law changes it can include making the solicitor responsible for collecting the tax. That would obviously be the case if exit tax was introduced.

Ha! No solicitor in their right mind would agree to be responsible for assessing and paying a client's tax. It will always be the responsibility of the client to pay or instruct a solicitor to pay.

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 22:36

How very generous of you. Particularly since you’re wrong.

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 22:31

@BIossomtoes but what you are talking about, budget changes, are adjustments to already existing systems.

Creating a whole new tax collection system is a structural change and has to go through the lengthy parliamentary process.

But I will let you have it.

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 22:20

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 22:17

@BIossomtoes it wouldn’t ‘whistle through’ anything. Even with a majority, the government can’t magic up a brand new tax collection system and dump it on solicitors as well as
HMRCs long established tax collection system.

Despite the government’s majority, the lengthy parliamentary system has to be implemented.

Budget changes go through immediately. Hence some taxation changes being implemented from midnight on the day they’re announced, eg on booze, tobacco or petrol. No lengthy parliamentary process required. An additional tax collection base could be achieved with appropriate software, no magic required.

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 22:17

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 21:55

The government makes law, the legal system enacts it. It would whistle through parliament with the majority the current government has.

@BIossomtoes it wouldn’t ‘whistle through’ anything. Even with a majority, the government can’t magic up a brand new tax collection system and dump it on solicitors as well as
HMRCs long established tax collection system.

Despite the government’s majority, the lengthy parliamentary system has to be implemented.

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 21:55

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 21:49

Wow! How long would this take to go through Parliament and I think the legal system have something to say about this. Wishful thinking!

The government makes law, the legal system enacts it. It would whistle through parliament with the majority the current government has.

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 21:49

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 21:41

If the law changes it can include making the solicitor responsible for collecting the tax. That would obviously be the case if exit tax was introduced.

Wow! How long would this take to go through Parliament and I think the legal system have something to say about this. Wishful thinking!

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 21:41

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 21:13

That's not entirely true. A solicitor is not responsible for paying tax to HMRC from a client account. They can advise on it but the client is responsible for the payments. (QED Angela Raynor's bit of bother).

If the law changes it can include making the solicitor responsible for collecting the tax. That would obviously be the case if exit tax was introduced.

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 21:13

38thparallel · 16/11/2025 20:12

The money from asset sales usually passes through solicitors’ client accounts. The tax is deducted at that point just like a charge on a property is currently.

Thank you for answering my question Blossomtoes.

That's not entirely true. A solicitor is not responsible for paying tax to HMRC from a client account. They can advise on it but the client is responsible for the payments. (QED Angela Raynor's bit of bother).

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 21:10

38thparallel · 16/11/2025 18:38

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

How is an exit tax enforced? If I sell my house and business and have the vendors pay for it into an overseas bank account and I leave the country, how can they seize money from abroad?

Well quite. But fairness, practicality and a good outcome has not been a requirement Labour have applied in their taxation policy so far.

38thparallel · 16/11/2025 20:12

The money from asset sales usually passes through solicitors’ client accounts. The tax is deducted at that point just like a charge on a property is currently.

Thank you for answering my question Blossomtoes.

BIossomtoes · 16/11/2025 19:49

38thparallel · 16/11/2025 18:38

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

How is an exit tax enforced? If I sell my house and business and have the vendors pay for it into an overseas bank account and I leave the country, how can they seize money from abroad?

The money from asset sales usually passes through solicitors’ client accounts. The tax is deducted at that point just like a charge on a property is currently.

38thparallel · 16/11/2025 18:38

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

How is an exit tax enforced? If I sell my house and business and have the vendors pay for it into an overseas bank account and I leave the country, how can they seize money from abroad?

CanadianJohn · 16/11/2025 18:30

luckylavender · 16/11/2025 06:17

You have the impression they might give us a hard time? Based on what? You’re just idling speculating.

Refer to @1dayatatime 's reply. I would have written much the same.

Leavesfalling · 16/11/2025 14:00

1dayatatime · 16/11/2025 07:48

Based on the current rules for joining the EU which would require joining the euro and significant budgetary contributions rather than the very advantageous deal the UK previously enjoyed before such as budget rebates.

It would also be fair to say that any attempt to rejoin the EU would be protracted as it is not in the EU's interests to create the precedent that the EU is some club that you can easily just leave and rejoin whenever you fancy.

That's hardly going to help us. The EU are having a dreadful time of it too.

She's now talking about an exit tax. So if that's not in this Budget it's in her mind. The only logical thing for the wealthy to do now is get out while you can.

We have the most appalling government I can ever remember and I'm no spring chicken.

MNLurker1345 · 16/11/2025 12:27

EasternStandard · 14/11/2025 11:44

Why try so hard to create a bigger hole?

After lying about fully funded and fully costed the 24 budget whacked £70bn tax and borrowing on the public.

That was a one off, so now they need more and that was a lie too.

Covid and PPE wasted a lot of money. But not in the figures to make the mess we are currently in.

The Labour government promised a fully-funded plan that was never going to happen. They’ve already raised taxes and borrowing, they will need to do it again, they are not telling the truth.

Cuts are possible but not doable because the PLP and the unions won’t allow it.

The government need to and will eventually raise taxes for the middle class, because the middle class are the biggest group and earn wages that can be taxed.

Despite what everyone believes the wealthy are a much smaller group and pay a large amount of income tax already.

Of course taxing the middle class more is a smoking gun, because the middle class are their voter base.

People keep saying ‘tax the rich’, but there simply aren’t enough rich people to fund today’s welfare state.

The poor can’t be taxed because they don’t earn enough. So the only group big enough to raise serious money from is the middle class — the millions of people earning £35k–£100k.

1dayatatime · 16/11/2025 07:48

luckylavender · 16/11/2025 06:17

You have the impression they might give us a hard time? Based on what? You’re just idling speculating.

Based on the current rules for joining the EU which would require joining the euro and significant budgetary contributions rather than the very advantageous deal the UK previously enjoyed before such as budget rebates.

It would also be fair to say that any attempt to rejoin the EU would be protracted as it is not in the EU's interests to create the precedent that the EU is some club that you can easily just leave and rejoin whenever you fancy.

luckylavender · 16/11/2025 06:17

CanadianJohn · 15/11/2025 00:25

Apologies, I haven't read the full thread, but various posters have implied the UK should rejoin the EU.

Would it be that easy? I have the impression that the EU might give the UK a hard time about rejoining. Would the UK be considered as a new applicant?

You have the impression they might give us a hard time? Based on what? You’re just idling speculating.

Artesia · 15/11/2025 22:26

OldieButBaddie · 14/11/2025 12:02

It's all down to press speculation though! She never said she was going to raise income tax, just didn't rule it out which is clearly sensible given they hadn't yet decided

I think there should be a formal media embargo on reporting budget speculation for a month before any budget. You hear stories financially illiterate people who are for some reason terrified of paying tax suddenly withdrawing their pension because they read in the right wing press that the tax free allowance will be taken away. This is madness and could harm them a lot esp if they are still working and wanting to keep paying into a pension!

NO ONE knows what will be in the budget, and whatever it is there will be short term whining and then things will settle down. The real damage is done by the media.

What's concerning is that you are probably right- at the moment it seems as though even she doesn't know what will be in the wretched Budget.

Socrateswasrightaboutvoting · 15/11/2025 21:52

Happyjoe · 15/11/2025 12:12

Actually Labour when they were last in power did actually use the money where it was needed. They improved the NHS at point of use (remember min waiting times etc, brought in by Labour), improved schools, things were working a lot better.

This is not that labour government. It's pointless talking about what they did last time when it is already possible to judge them by what they are doing now.