Why don’t Labour get it?

Welfare Spending must be cut, we cannot afford to have so many people not working.
So many have had advice about going back to employment but still they dodge it. I am not saying 'starve them back to work' but life for many is just too easy.
If they do this and get rid of at least 50% of the migrants I will know that Labour is serious. Then and only then will I not object (too much) about losing our Triple Lock. That does have to go for a few years.

So to sum up, everyone thinks everyone else is entitled and should pay more, apart from the group they themselves belong to, which has been unfairly treated and deserves its fair share of help.

I think this demonstrates why you're unfortunately wrong OP in saying our economic woes are "not that hard to fix".

You might be fighting but a lot of younger generations aren't. They complain but do nothing, and start eyeing up other peoples' money. That's the shameful bit.

Dare I suggest that your friends may not be a statistically representative sample of the workforce as a whole? There used to be an argument that public sector pay was lower than private sector pay and their generous pensions made up for this but median public sector pay is now higher than private sector pay. researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8037/CBP-8037.pdf#:~:text=In%20April%202024%2C%20median%20weekly%20earnings%20for,private%20sector's%20greater%20use%20of%20furlough%20(when

Those who are saying pensioners have paid in all their lives, are you honestly saying all pensioners? Every single one? If that’s the case there would be no need for pension credit.

The whole system is fucked up. The very people who are providing the services for everyone else are depressed, anxious and some even suicidal. Some are using food banks because they can’t afford to live on a full time wage. I personally know of 2 paramedics who have died by suicide this year due to being unable to see a way out of this shit show of a life and if I didn’t have a child, I’d be joining them.

Labour, and to be fair previous governments, need to stop rewarding irresponsibility.

If you're depressed, well frankly the best thing for you is to get a job. And yes I have been profoundly depressed after bereavement but having to still work probably saved me.

The poor me victim culture in this country is what needs to stop. But for some reason our benefit system encourages it.

@senua what makes you think I don't fight for my rights? However I asked you why it was shameful for younger people to complain?

So you agree with me? the social contract for the young is broken.

It's not broken YET. That's what I'm saying. Fight for your rights before the contract is broken, stop being defeatist.

@Teribus21 so what is the solution?

Everyone will have to face the pain of an emergency budget sooner or later.

The problem is everyone hasn't shared the burden.

Labour can’t (or won’t) be able to “fix” the damage from 2008, COVID and Brexit in a few months or probably even a few years.Nor will any successive government do so by just trying to shave portions of the welfare costs.

If it's fixable it will take years

I don't even think there are enough young people to fight back? people have no idea how much the demographics have changed!

@senua I'm not young, I'm middle aged but recognise it's worse for them then it is for me.

What makes you so sure that you won't receive it?

What do you mean by it? I know the age has increased.,,

haven't heard much fight for your rights.

So you agree with me? the social contract for the young is broken.

Immigration works well when it is highly selective and those who come into the country put more in than they take out.

We don't have a highly selective immigration system and additionally the tax system means that immigrants cost the government more than they pay in taxes (unless they earn over circa 65k a year depending on children/health).

This basically means most immigrants impose greater costs on the system.

On the immigration for the NHS/Care worker issue it is perfectly possible to issue time limited visas for workers who have zero dependents (where most of the cost is) and give them a small tax break for having zero dependents so they come to the UK work here for a few years and then return home. That way we buy some years to train more nurses and doctors and don't have to pay for dependents of immigrant workers.

What makes you so sure that you won't receive it?
I've heard people complain, in dejected terms but your generation's resignation and acceptance of the concept is doing 95% of the politicians' job for them. I haven't heard much fight for your rights.
Pensioners fought back (e.g. on WFA) so why don't you?

So many people incorrectly think the state pension is a social contract based savings type arrangement.
It is not.
It is a state given benefit.
The notion that someone worked and paid into a pension pot to recoup when they are of age is simply wrong - and reasonable to expect those who assert this to be able to prove it.
I understand the feeling that it is, or should be, such a scheme, but it isn’t.
As to people being “entitled” to a decent retirement- it’s the same sort of reasoning that goes with being entitled to a job, housing education but while great in theory - harder to achieve with only state support.
Labour could reform any part of the welfare system and (yes pensions fall under the welfare system and welfare bill!) people would insist they shouldn’t and that people are entitled to support for x,y and z.
they would be in a fair and efficient system but Labour can’t (or won’t) be able to “fix” the damage from 2008, COVID and Brexit in a few months or probably even a few years.
Nor will any successive government do so by just trying to shave portions of the welfare costs.
..Because people will resist any change to a welfare benefit that affects them. And as the state pension is the biggest cost - expect the greatest resistance to that particular benefit being changed.

@senua
I paid my NI contributions. That was the social contract.

The triple lock was introduced in 2011. When did you enter the workforce?

The indications are that we have reached the top of the Laffer curve where any increases in taxes fails to produce a gain in net revenue for the public purse and can produce less. 81% of new borrowing goes on servicing our growing debt and we have to borrow more and more to stand still. We have stagnant economic growth, a very weak private sector, a burgeoning bill for public services, one in four workers in the public sector an estimated 6.6 million people on benefits and a NHS which is simply unaffordable. We are living beyond our means. You can’t spend yourself out of a debt crisis and there is no single solution. It won’t be solved by cutting the triple lock, tackling benefits or excessive immigration on their own. Everyone will have to face the pain of an emergency budget sooner or later. Sorry to be a Cassandra but more and more economists like me are sounding alarm bells now.

public sector pensions are not as generous as they were of course, another ladder pulled up.

What never seems to be brought up in the “bash the pensioners” argument is the £57bn p.a. that the very generous public sector pensions cost. These are index linked and public sector workers get them in addition to the state pension, paid for by the tax payer. This is causing a huge black hole in the finances which Government keeps strangely quiet about.

Having friends in both camps, my private sector friends earn far more than public sector friends. Often hear, “I got a bonus of £10,000 which I have moved straight to my pension pot, or “I've earned over the tax threshold so have removed part of my salary to my pension, to reduce my tax”.

@senua or perhaps you could expand why young people should pay more for things they won't receive and if they complain about that why is it shameful?

@senua what do you not understand? We have broken the social contract for the young and I see little shame expressed about that.
I have paid my NI contributions too but that's hasn't stopped the qualifying age increasing or the fact it will be reformed when i'm older.

I don't understand. Can you expand your point please.

Other countries pensions are more aligned to what one has actually paid in so maybe we need to look at that.

Even if someone worked full time for decades they won't have paid enough for 2 decades of the state pension. you would need to have been a higher earner for decades and the vast majority aren't. That's before you even look at healthcare costs.

Do you now want to renege on that contract? Shame on you.

Where is the shame for breaking the social contract for the young?