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Politics

“Tax the wealthy” (RR budget) what does this even mean?

639 replies

gggddjkki · 16/10/2025 08:32

I don’t remember anxiously waiting for budgets like we have the last few years earlier on in my adulthood. But when you read statements like this (as I have seen in the headlines today) what do you interpret it to mean? What does taxing the wealthy look like to you? Taxing higher earners more? From what point? Higher taxes on industry?

OP posts:
HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 20:03

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 19:42

Thanks - the confusion lies in the distinction between UK sovereign bonds (gilts), and corpororate bonds.

The former is relevant given the forthcoming budget, of course.

You are correct - this will impact individual business values and risk ratings in specific circumstances, which clearly will depress economic activity further particularly in certain affected sectors, but is separate to gilts/ the national debt/ public spending/ tax decisions generally.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 20:00

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 14:53

One comment to your post.

I do not disagree with your assessment regarding voters, but you can over-intellectualise politics, as they say. Those people have the same vote as you and I, and are likely to vote premised on who/what they believe will make a positive difference to their lives.

Politicians ignore or diminish them, at their peril. Trump’s second term is a recent example of this.

I totally agree with this. I thought, given the topic of this thread, that the people posting here would be some of the sub-set of people who actually do want to engage with the evidence and intellectual conversation about the economy. Politics is increasingly detached from economics, which is what has led to the very negative outcomes that we’re all experiencing now. Politics is all about manipulating people into convincing them that they will do what is best for you/ your descendants/ wider society (in whatever proportion the individual balances those objectives). The entire reason I’ve wasted so much of my time responding to this is precisely because of the risk of the UK becoming Trumpified due to this polarisation of politics which will, inevitably, mean that the very factors causing it (primarily lower living standards) get worse. Perhaps people should consider a different approach and evidence-based policy making might be beneficial. But I agree with you that - as we’ve seen here!! - many people are not rational so I hold little hope that this will happen. But those engaging in this kind of extremist left/ right nonsense and “culture war” populist politics at either extreme will need to own the outcome which will inevitably be living standards and national wealth and state provision declining even further and taxes rising ever higher because it is an absolute certainty that this approach - at either extreme - will accelerate the current economic trends, not slow or reverse them.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 19:44

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 19:35

What? Why would you be supporting a party if it had no policy proposals?

I already covered that :
They make the right noises about reversing most of what Labour have implemented from education and farmer taxes through to hints at wanting to lower the tax burden and increase the birth rate. That’s why people like them, because they’ll attempt to undo what Labour has caused. I’m not sure how your ‘there’s no one to vote for idea’ is going to work out in reality, Reform is the current best option.

I didn’t claim my views were purely data driven, complain about everyone else not being data driven, write a ten point list of why other people are stupid or claim I’m an ‘economist’. All I’m asking is what Reform policies did you use in your data modelling that convinced you people who are now supporting them ‘have the economic understanding of an 8 year old’.

“Undoing what Labour has caused” would not solve the UK’s economic problems. Obviously it’d be a good start, but given pretty much everybody was agreed at the last election that the country was a mess, obviously competent leadership requires more than saying “this new measure has been unpopular, let’s reverse it!”.

Per earlier posts in the thread, Reform’s entire stated programme of policies at present leads to a black hole of £90bn in tax revenues, further economic damage which will make this hole grow larger, and spending commitments of another £40bn or so given the things they’ve added on top of this post-election, with not one policy proposed about how to increase growth to fund this.

So the options, as usual, with then be higher tax (which they stated they will cut), or cuts to public spending (which they have even admitted that their various policy proposals will increase). So where is this £130bn going to come from? Given that total UK public spending is currently running at £1.2bn per year, that is 11% of additional money they need to magic out of thin air.

Do you believe in unicorns?

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 19:42

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 18:56

The value of a business may decrease if it is now liable for IHT if previously it wasn't. Same with a farm...market value may fall. They would never have been "valued" as such as 100% bpr would have been available in many cases. A drop in the underlying collateral say for an investment will reduce the cushion for bondholders. A business may need to sell assets to raise cash for IHT which may mean a greater risk for lenders or investors. If the value of an asset changes due to IHT (which you won't know the date this becomes relevant) the loan to value debt service coverage may change which again may increase the risk of a default. Reversing it (if Reform try) will.be tricky as behavior will have adjusted in the market and the market doesn't like uncertainty and pricing in another change will take a long time.

That's what I understand is the issue but perhaps an expert could explain it more clearly.

Thanks - the confusion lies in the distinction between UK sovereign bonds (gilts), and corpororate bonds.

The former is relevant given the forthcoming budget, of course.

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 19:35

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 19:23

What? Why would you be supporting a party if it had no policy proposals? 🤔

Of course it does. It has the manifesto that it published on its website just over a year ago, and it has the additional policies that it has announced since then in addition.

On what basis do you think people should be assessing their competence? By ignoring everything they have stated in writing to the public on their own website and in the media and basing our judgement on what, exactly, instead?

What? Why would you be supporting a party if it had no policy proposals?

I already covered that :
They make the right noises about reversing most of what Labour have implemented from education and farmer taxes through to hints at wanting to lower the tax burden and increase the birth rate. That’s why people like them, because they’ll attempt to undo what Labour has caused. I’m not sure how your ‘there’s no one to vote for idea’ is going to work out in reality, Reform is the current best option.

I didn’t claim my views were purely data driven, complain about everyone else not being data driven, write a ten point list of why other people are stupid or claim I’m an ‘economist’. All I’m asking is what Reform policies did you use in your data modelling that convinced you people who are now supporting them ‘have the economic understanding of an 8 year old’.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 19:23

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 18:59

Yes, as there aren’t any concrete policy proposals. Is your purely data driven analysis based on their previous manifesto? What other completely unaffordable policy announcements have been announced that your modelling is based on?
Maybe you could reference back to your ten point list.

What? Why would you be supporting a party if it had no policy proposals? 🤔

Of course it does. It has the manifesto that it published on its website just over a year ago, and it has the additional policies that it has announced since then in addition.

On what basis do you think people should be assessing their competence? By ignoring everything they have stated in writing to the public on their own website and in the media and basing our judgement on what, exactly, instead?

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 19:21

EasternStandard · 19/10/2025 18:41

I don’t think it’s correct. It’s too loaded and subjective.

That’s fine it’s only a post I’m just saying I don’t think it’s hitting the right reasons.

On the economic stuff I agree with much of you post on what to do.

That’s fine - unlike my posts about the economy that post that seems to have riled up particular posters (who notably haven’t engaged with the economic discussion at all, despite it being the subject of the thread) was clearly an opinion. It was clear in the original context that it was (given that it was a response to another poster asking my opinion about the motivations) and I had also specifically stated that Reform supporters are millions of people, I am not one of them and am not a mind reader, so all I could write was the reasons that I am aware of based on research on the topic and the stated opinions of Reform supporters who have stated them either publicly in the media or to me in person.

I also specifically stated that I’d be interested to hear from others who are supporting them/ considering supporting them about their reasons for doing so and how they think that this will impact the UK’s economy, fiscal position, and therefore the living standards of its residents (given that this is a thread about fiscal policy and its effect on the economy) because I wanted to understand their reasoning. Sadly, the only responses received were a series of personal attacks and then some very bizarre comments from somebody deranged and in need of medical help due to a strange obsession with teachers. Furthermore, I noted that I’m autistic so use language bluntly and said sorry if I had caused offence as this was not intended; I was simply answering that particular question I was asked which was about my opinion on motivations. I’m not a psychologist, however, so not my area of expertise to give anything more than an opinion. I am interested in the economics and evidence and data, and it seems that me having given an opinion in ONE POST which was specifically asked for and therefore clearly was not presented as fact but personal opinion has been used by certain people to try to derail the thread and prevent any factual discussion about the economics, which those same posters haven’t engaged with in any meaningful way at all. Quelle surprise….

I have read so many comments on various forums/ newspaper column sections online stating that “nobody understands Reform supporters” and “nobody will listen to their point of view”. Yet the outrage if someone else states a point of view even when asked to do so has taken up multiple pages of the thread. And if you ask for their reasoned analysis of how they think Farage’s policies will improve the fiscal situation/ economy etc (which presumably anybody on this thread is interested in, given that is the subject of it!) so that you can try to understand their point of view you get met with a barrage of personal insults and no substantive response at all. It’s difficult for others to fathom why Reform’s supporters believe that the party’s stated fiscal policies will be an improvement when not a single credible economist agrees and not one Reform supporter on this thread has been able to articulate and argument to support that their policies would be beneficial to the economy.

Instead, these posters continue to claim to be “misunderstood”, like sulky teenagers, so I have to admit that I am now inclined to think that their “nobody will listen to us” retort is disingenuous because the ones who have posted here haven’t been able to articulate any analysis of why Reform’ stated policies would have any positive economic impact and have refused to discuss this at all - even on a thread that is specifically about the fiscal impact of Government policy!

Instead we get “are you a teacher?” X 10 or whatever other nonsense. And false claims from the very people who’ve made lots of nasty personal comments that others are “insulting” them personally by discussing general economic or voting trends and what the motivations for those might be, in general terms without referring at all to any specific poster.

The cognitive dissonance appears to be the size of Mount Everest. How do these posters know the motivations of millions of other Reform posters and know that my list was wrong (note again - I didn’t say that even in my opinion this was an exhaustive list of motivations, just some of those I have noted). Once you decide to support Reform do you get access to some kind of Hive Mind where you can read the minds of all other Reform supporters and know why they are supporting Reform and, therefore, that all of the reasons that I listed as reasons why some people are supporting them are incorrect?

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 18:59

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:39

So you’re supporting a political party without ever having read their policy proposals? They published a “manifesto” on their website prior to the last general election, and have made further (completely unaffordable) policy announcements publicly since then.

Yes, as there aren’t any concrete policy proposals. Is your purely data driven analysis based on their previous manifesto? What other completely unaffordable policy announcements have been announced that your modelling is based on?
Maybe you could reference back to your ten point list.

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 18:56

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 18:29

@Leavesfalling

Sorry, please could you clarify your post?

Thanks

The value of a business may decrease if it is now liable for IHT if previously it wasn't. Same with a farm...market value may fall. They would never have been "valued" as such as 100% bpr would have been available in many cases. A drop in the underlying collateral say for an investment will reduce the cushion for bondholders. A business may need to sell assets to raise cash for IHT which may mean a greater risk for lenders or investors. If the value of an asset changes due to IHT (which you won't know the date this becomes relevant) the loan to value debt service coverage may change which again may increase the risk of a default. Reversing it (if Reform try) will.be tricky as behavior will have adjusted in the market and the market doesn't like uncertainty and pricing in another change will take a long time.

That's what I understand is the issue but perhaps an expert could explain it more clearly.

EasternStandard · 19/10/2025 18:48

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 18:43

Again, for balance.

‘We have fully costed, fully funded plans,” Labour told the country during the election campaign. “Nothing in our plans requires any additional tax to be increased.” Ramming home that message, Rachel Reeves promised every Labour policy was “fully funded and fully costed – no ifs, no ands, no buts … no additional tax rises”.

In total, Labour pledged not to put up taxes at least 50 times before polling day.

Yep. And then £70bn tax and borrowing hike at first opportunity.

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 18:43

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:39

So you’re supporting a political party without ever having read their policy proposals? They published a “manifesto” on their website prior to the last general election, and have made further (completely unaffordable) policy announcements publicly since then.

Again, for balance.

‘We have fully costed, fully funded plans,” Labour told the country during the election campaign. “Nothing in our plans requires any additional tax to be increased.” Ramming home that message, Rachel Reeves promised every Labour policy was “fully funded and fully costed – no ifs, no ands, no buts … no additional tax rises”.

In total, Labour pledged not to put up taxes at least 50 times before polling day.

EasternStandard · 19/10/2025 18:41

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:37

I didn’t state that was an “objective list”. As was clear in the original conversation and has been reiterated numerous times in the thread for anybody who didn’t read it properly the first time, it was a response to another poster specifically asking me for my opinion about why Reform’s support has increased so much. I listed out all of the reasons that I have seen stated by Reform supporters themselves in the media, or in independent research on the topic, or that have been stated to me in person by Reform supporters. I did not claim it was an exhaustive list and specifically asked Reform supporters who have other reasons for supporting them to share them because I was genuinely interested to understand their perspectives. I’m afraid that my comments on that have been wilfully misrepresented by very angry people who clearly struggle with reading comprehension.

I’ve criticised all of the political parties, and indeed questioned why people have supported their unwise policies. Notably, I’ve not been attacked by hordes of Labour or Conservative supporters because I dared to criticise their political party and question the thinking or its supporters. It’s unclear why Reform supporters seem to think they/ their party should be immune from criticism and seem to believe that nobody is allowed to interrogate Reform’s policy proposals or the motivations for supporting them without them shouting “you called me a racist/ stupid” even when nobody did so. The ideological and dogmatic way that they have responded, casting anyone who isn’t in agreement with them as some kind of “enemy”, is very insular and unhealthy and reminiscent of the behaviour of members of a cult.

I don’t think it’s correct. It’s too loaded and subjective.

That’s fine it’s only a post I’m just saying I don’t think it’s hitting the right reasons.

On the economic stuff I agree with much of you post on what to do.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:39

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 17:35

As far as I know Reform’s only concrete financial policies are to stop net zero. They’ve back tracked on the 20k tax threshold and the rest is vague cutting costs with no details so I don’t know how your data based process has arrived at economic armageddon. They make the right noises about reversing most of what Labour have implemented from education and farmer taxes through to hints at wanting to lower the tax burden and increase the birth rate. That’s why people like them, because they’ll attempt to undo what Labour has caused. I’m not sure how your ‘there’s no one to vote for idea’ is going to work out in reality, Reform is the current best option.

So you’re supporting a political party without ever having read their policy proposals? They published a “manifesto” on their website prior to the last general election, and have made further (completely unaffordable) policy announcements publicly since then.

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:37

EasternStandard · 19/10/2025 18:06

@PlanetMaI’ve read your posts and I don’t disagree with most of the economic points (without going through each, maybe agreement for all). So I agree on your take on Labour as hammering incentives but I don’t agree on the 10 political points for why Reform that got a few comments.

I don’t think that was an objective list as stated, more an opinion also for KB too I don’t really agree, but I do agree more with some of the economic points.

Edited

I didn’t state that was an “objective list”. As was clear in the original conversation and has been reiterated numerous times in the thread for anybody who didn’t read it properly the first time, it was a response to another poster specifically asking me for my opinion about why Reform’s support has increased so much. I listed out all of the reasons that I have seen stated by Reform supporters themselves in the media, or in independent research on the topic, or that have been stated to me in person by Reform supporters. I did not claim it was an exhaustive list and specifically asked Reform supporters who have other reasons for supporting them to share them because I was genuinely interested to understand their perspectives. I’m afraid that my comments on that have been wilfully misrepresented by very angry people who clearly struggle with reading comprehension.

I’ve criticised all of the political parties, and indeed questioned why people have supported their unwise policies. Notably, I’ve not been attacked by hordes of Labour or Conservative supporters because I dared to criticise their political party and question the thinking or its supporters. It’s unclear why Reform supporters seem to think they/ their party should be immune from criticism and seem to believe that nobody is allowed to interrogate Reform’s policy proposals or the motivations for supporting them without them shouting “you called me a racist/ stupid” even when nobody did so. The ideological and dogmatic way that they have responded, casting anyone who isn’t in agreement with them as some kind of “enemy”, is very insular and unhealthy and reminiscent of the behaviour of members of a cult.

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 18:29

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 18:13

Reform. will find reversing the new.Apr and BPR regs tricky due to the effect on the bond markets of previously "unvalued " assets that currently don't have any IHT liability. Big FU by Labour.

@Leavesfalling

Sorry, please could you clarify your post?

Thanks

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 18:28

Enterthewolves · 19/10/2025 18:02

If someone supports a racist espousing racist policies how would you describe them?

For starters, I do not accept the validity of your question considering it is based on a faulty premise, and you are now simply attempting to justify your previous statements.

Are you prepared to withdraw or amend your previous assertions?

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 18:27

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 17:10

Your posts are rather long. Perhaps you could tighten them up a bit. It's rather an imposition on the rest of us. Pithy is good 👍🏻

Nobody’s forcing you to read or respond to posts if you don’t want to.

Perhaps you should consider being less “pithy”. I’d suggest your unpleasant and pointless responses to comments you haven’t read are rather an imposition on others.

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 18:13

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 17:35

As far as I know Reform’s only concrete financial policies are to stop net zero. They’ve back tracked on the 20k tax threshold and the rest is vague cutting costs with no details so I don’t know how your data based process has arrived at economic armageddon. They make the right noises about reversing most of what Labour have implemented from education and farmer taxes through to hints at wanting to lower the tax burden and increase the birth rate. That’s why people like them, because they’ll attempt to undo what Labour has caused. I’m not sure how your ‘there’s no one to vote for idea’ is going to work out in reality, Reform is the current best option.

Reform. will find reversing the new.Apr and BPR regs tricky due to the effect on the bond markets of previously "unvalued " assets that currently don't have any IHT liability. Big FU by Labour.

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 18:07

Enterthewolves · 19/10/2025 18:02

If someone supports a racist espousing racist policies how would you describe them?

Farage is not a racist and does not support racist policies. So what's your point?

EasternStandard · 19/10/2025 18:06

@PlanetMaI’ve read your posts and I don’t disagree with most of the economic points (without going through each, maybe agreement for all). So I agree on your take on Labour as hammering incentives but I don’t agree on the 10 political points for why Reform that got a few comments.

I don’t think that was an objective list as stated, more an opinion also for KB too I don’t really agree, but I do agree more with some of the economic points.

Bumblebee72 · 19/10/2025 18:06

Enterthewolves · 19/10/2025 18:02

If someone supports a racist espousing racist policies how would you describe them?

Corbynites?

Enterthewolves · 19/10/2025 18:02

Nolletimiere · 19/10/2025 14:12

For the sake of balance, the PP has had posts removed for their repeated assertion that any person who would vote for Reform, is either a ‘racist’, or a ‘racist sympathiser’.

As I say, for the sake of balance.

If someone supports a racist espousing racist policies how would you describe them?

HailCeaser · 19/10/2025 17:35

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 17:08

I agree with you that she is incompetent and should not be in that role. My very first posts on this thread were about her incompetence.

I can’t see anybody within the Conservatives capable of doing it either. I mean, Mel Stride is their Shadow Chancellor!?

And who are Reform proposing to put forward for this role exactly, were they to be in power??

I don’t know which school you went to but they clearly didn’t focus much on reading comprehension, and seem to have done something that’s led to you having a very strange obsession with schools. I hope you get some help.

As far as I know Reform’s only concrete financial policies are to stop net zero. They’ve back tracked on the 20k tax threshold and the rest is vague cutting costs with no details so I don’t know how your data based process has arrived at economic armageddon. They make the right noises about reversing most of what Labour have implemented from education and farmer taxes through to hints at wanting to lower the tax burden and increase the birth rate. That’s why people like them, because they’ll attempt to undo what Labour has caused. I’m not sure how your ‘there’s no one to vote for idea’ is going to work out in reality, Reform is the current best option.

Leavesfalling · 19/10/2025 17:10

PlanetMa · 19/10/2025 17:04

Agreed. However, if you create good infrastructure and an environment with a high standard of living and good trade links and fair tax rates they will pay more than they are paying currently in order to access this. As for all other voters they will do what they perceive to be most beneficial to them, but these ones generally do tend to make logical decisions because they have a host of professional advisors ensuring that they are told what is the rationally beneficial decision and rather than voting at the ballot box they vote with their feet. Meanwhile we can reform things like transfer pricing to ensure that profits are taxed in the country in which they are generated and other similar measures that are proportional and reasonable could be implemented in a non-damaging way that would be accepted (as opposed to the madness proposed of trying to tax non-doms inheritance tax on their worldwide assets - which genius came up with that idea? This is the type of thing that shows the level of cluelessness we’re dealing with here in the political leadership. What did they think would happen!?).

People in the middle who own properties that the Government deems to be expensive (like they really wanted to take out huge mortgages to have a secure roof over their heads and had any control over this) or who earn decent salaries that used to be comfortable but on a PAYE basis are easy targets but the limits of taxing these people more and pretending that they are “rich” have been pushed to the extreme already and have been shown to be having a “Laffer curve” effect with people retiring early, cutting hours, emigrating etc. In HMRC data there is “bunching” between each earnings threshold where more punitive measures kick in, showing the adverse behavioural effects of these policies and that they lower overall tax revenue. These are our most productive people, often in skills-shortage areas, and those whom the UK is currently very disproportionately reliant on for tax revenue in comparison to other countries due to our top-heavy tax system, and this approach to revenue raising cannot be pushed much further (if at all) because, as we’ve seen in recent years, raising further taxes on this group above the already high levels actually reduces overall tax revenue rather than increasing it because they simply cut hours/ leave/ retire etc. Ultimately, nobody is going to work for free.

Similar disincentives exist at different levels of earnings due to the withdrawal of child benefit, and for those claiming universal credit because the taper rate is far too high still. Tax policy should incentivise work, not the opposite. But none are as bad as the £100k cliff-edge which is patently absurd and does a lot of economic harm, as well as increasing the need for immigration (which many posters seem to not want…). No other country I’m aware of structures their tax system like this. The way tax law around employees and contractors has been designed similarly distorted the market. There are so many examples, all entirely within Government control to fix and well evidenced, so tax reform should be a top priority to smooth out rates and remove disparities between different types of income (with still some incentives for investment that carries risk) and also to ensure that households are taxed or given welfare based on household income, not individual income, otherwise you end up with immense distortions which is why, again, no other comparable developed country that I’m aware of structures things in this way.

It isn’t a question of people’s moral beliefs or preferences but economic and mathematical fact that the UK can’t possibly fund the type of public services which the UK public is demanding unless lower and middle earners pay more because of the numbers of people in each group. It’s literally a mathematical impossibility.

The only credible options are:

  1. cut public services significantly;

  2. raise taxes on middle and lower earners significantly;

  3. reform public services and institutions so that you can redirect public spending to productive parts of the economy that will generate growth and higher productivity and raise living standards (i.e. a healthcare system more similar to those in France or Germany, means-test state pensions and mandate auto-enrolment with higher contributions (including from self-employed people), reform the tax system to remove cliff-edges and disincentives harming investment and economic growth and investment in new technology, remove unnecessary trade barriers that are harming economic growth, invest in a proper industrial strategy, total reform of education with a much increased budget and with focus on diversification to different routes through technical training and meaningful apprenticeships designed in partnership with companies that lead on to proper career routes for those who aren’t academic, a very large investment in our infrastructure that’s been run into the ground, provide support for small businesses to export and form clusters of start-ups in the sectors where we have a good knowledge base and competitive advantage… etc). And, meanwhile, reform the tax system per my comments above so that it actually encourages economic growth, work and investment.

Nobody likes 3) because it’s “too complicated”, can’t be put into a three-word-slogan, will take a while to have effect and will mean that some people have to give up some things that they like receiving currently. But given that 1) or 2) actually wouldn’t improve things sufficiently to make the long term sustainable anyway - only provide a short-term reprieve if they were implemented, which isn’t happening anyway because “CAKE!!!” - 3) really is the only viable option if the country is to have a positive future trajectory and I just wish that any political party would have the decency to explain this reality to the public and put forward a sensible policy prospectus before it becomes impossible and option 3) becomes almost unachievable.

I like to think that if they did so a sufficient enough proportion of the UK public, who are fed up with all of the extremist nonsense, would get behind it, because what alternative is there? I like to think the “silent majority” is actually the bulk of sensible, normal people who just want to get on with their lives and have a competent Government in place that they can trust to be making sensible, rational, moderate and not ideological decisions. But perhaps I’m being too optimistic to think that. Or perhaps all of our politicians are just too self-interested and don’t care about what the country actually needs but only their own careers and elections hence the extremely damaging short-term thinking.

Based on the discussions here, I won’t hold my breath for there being any positive change and fully expect the doom loop to continue, and most likely accelerate.

Your posts are rather long. Perhaps you could tighten them up a bit. It's rather an imposition on the rest of us. Pithy is good 👍🏻

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