New election poll shows a very divided country!

No government can get “facts” across because no one agrees what facts are. People read “news” from many outlets. They won’t accept what any research institution or government says. It’s obviously a problem that’s leading people to be racist and listing to a couple on women on Nicky Campbell on R5 this morning, we have big problems! They are utterly racist and will never accept immigrants help this country thrive. One lived in Cornwall! You hardly see immigrants in Cornwall. It’s pure racism and she said her niece refused to speak to her (who lives in France) after she voted for Brexit. I’m not surprised!

We have millions who think they should be allowed to say what they want, regardless of causing offence, and see Farage as permitting such racist ill-informed views. The other parties won’t change the minds of people like this when their family members cannot manage it.

I will take your post at face value that it is a genuine question (recognising that there aren't many on MN).

The reality is that you cannot stop people arriving illegally in the UK. But what you can do is make the UK a less attractive destination to come to.

One option is to pay another country enough money to take the illegal migrants (basically the Rwanda policy). Although the numbers involved won't make much difference, it does make the UK less attractive. For example in the last month of the Conservatives there was an increasing number of illegal migrants moving from the UK to Ireland because of the Rwanda policy. Or alternatively the Australians transfers illegal migrants to offshore processing centres such as Nauru. Italy uses Albania for the same purpose etc etc.

But in short if you were an illegal migrant sat in Calais why would you pay €1000 to try to get to the UK if you faced the risk of being transferred to another country on arrival. Yes it's a small risk but many will decide that they are better off staying in France.

But what will Farage do about immigration, in particular the immigrants who arrive via boats?
How exactly will he stop anyone stepping foot on UK soil?
As soon as they are here they need dealing with and there absolutely is a cost.
Is he going to puncture their boats and personally watch each and everyone of them drown?
How exactly will he get rid of them the minute they try and step foot on UK soil, it’s a genuine question.

Whilst I agree with you that all
politicians lie, I would say that's only because the voters want politicians to lie.

If you had a choice between:

Candidate A who promised to either increase spending on say the NHS by increasing taxes or alternatively decreasing taxes by cutting spending on say the NHS or

Candidate B who promised to increase spending on the NHS by "cutting waste" or growing the economy etc but definitely not increasing taxes or alternatively cutting taxes but not cutting spending by cutting waste or growing the economy etc

Then Candidate B would always get elected to be a politician.

Candidates that don't lie always remain as Candidates.

Well I guess we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place, because all politicians lie, whatever their party. That’s the reality I’m afraid. They’re all in it for themselves. They might start off with good intentions, then like Rayner, they stick their snouts in the trough and lie through their teeth to self serve.

It will be interesting to see the results of the by-election in Wales next month, and the Senedd elections next year. Wales has been run by Labour since devolution, and the mess is obvious in all devolved matters…. Education, NHS and so many vanity projects like 20mph speed limits, planting trees in Uganda (?) Wales Gov also does not know what a woman is…
The polls are showing Reform are now ahead of Labour, if this is translated into control or some power in the Senedd there will be time to see if they are just talk, or if they can make a difference ahead of the next general election.

What exactly will reform do about immigration?
Is Farage going to stand on the beach with a rifle and shoot immigrants in the head as they attempt to set foot on UK soil?
Otherwise I don’t think he will reduce immigration.
Those who vote for him, how do you justify voting for a confirmed liar?
He lied about giving an extra £350 million to the NHS every week. Where is that money he promised? Why does anyone still listen to his lies?

For all their faults, the Lib Dems are probably the most outward-looking.

Because once you start splashing the cash and people get used to it it’s difficult to change it.

I agree to a point with you, and I also disagree. I don't think Farage can magic a better version of real life, and he does definitely speak to a sizeable chunk of the UK population. I am just not seeing (and I am looking) a sensible, plausible fair version of government and taxation for the UK.

DH and I were, in our early 30s, in the 1990s, a new couple. I had come from London and NYC and DH from the ME and the army. We hit it off. We are still together, although there have been several health crises in between, and now we would like to settle. We are never going to choose to live anywhere ethnic, because we are white and middle class. But we do love the food and culture and cricket.

While I am never ever going to vote for Farage, I'd like to find a version of English that looks outward cheerfully.

Well having that conversation with the public - spelling out some facts around immigration and people seeking asylum. There is a lot of misinformation about legal/illegal, numbers/costs and that is like starting a big maths problem from the basis 2 add 2 equals 5 to my mind.
More info, for example I’m really not sure people understand Afghans fought/translated alongside the British Army and we assured them safety , plus other countries did similar and took more. Nor that we ran a rushed (small) resettlement scheme with no time to house them helping overfill hotels. Or that we have Ukrainians in hotels pending asylum claims or having lost their original sponsor.
Dealing with the backlog of asylum claims - putting money back into ESOL funding and integration schemes so everyone understands expectations and realities on all sides and just get to know each other - stop the fear and isolation.
Boost and target foreign aid.
Work more closely with the EU and get access to Europol again.
Open safe/legal routes up.
Cut back on Tory mates’ hotel scams and don’t pay ridiculous amounts to house/taxi people when a bit of thought and planning would resolve some of that.
Invest in running the whole immigration system efficiently, eg/don’t refuse a visa, leave it 9 years and then follow up, don’t leave illegal working to carry on as it is easier/suits someone (I’m sure the black market suits someone/gov’t as it’s never clamped down on).
Deal with claims/applications quickly, and properly, from end to end - get appeal tribunals caught up to date and ensure anyone leaves in whatever timeframe if that is the outcome. Invest in voluntary returns process and stop people not daring to ask for help from immigration enforcement or other branches.
Personally I think the whole world should have a chat and find a way to stop bombing other countries, start supporting countries/areas in need and work out equitable as possible support for those who have to flee their home country - obviously that can’t happen. But I think it’s important to our society to maintain integrity and humanity and do the best possible - I think we definitely fail at being honest/transparent and have not learned lessons on integration (or lack of) from the Windrush generation.
Just a few thoughts thrown out - but probably needs an ideal world for it to improve or something.

@ArthriticOldLabrador I’m waiting for those with the concern to do the jobs the immigrants do! It’s about time there was a reality check. We are such a stupid nation.

@GimmieABreakOr3
of course who they should be targeting is large corporations dodging tax!

How do you suggest this is done? Don’t you think if UK government could make large corporations pay more tax they would be doing so?

1,000,000 children going hungry daily, and so on.

I don’t know if this figure is accurate, but for many children who go hungry the cause will be a parent/parents who are alcoholics or addicts or compulsive gamblers.
These addictions have wrecked families’ lives since the beginning of time and In many countries the easy access to drugs has made the problem even worse.
No government - or anyone else for that matter - has found a solution.

If the mainstream parties had been willing to tackle the issue of mass immigration there would have been no need for the Reform movement.

Instead it somehow became unacceptable to discuss or debate it for fear of being branded racist- that is until Nigel stuck his head above the parapet.

He is now called far right by those who still don’t want to address it, but it mass immigration is a concern for many of all political persuasions.

Can you say more about what you envisage? I’m interested. How many people would be accommodated roughly in your view

It would have been extremely popular with Tory voters. 🤷‍♀️

Because it would have been unpopular. Still is and that’s why no govt wants to tackle it and the problem just gets worse and worse.

Consequently, people of an age to have a family are spending a massive chunk of their pay on keeping a roof over their heads. And a huge amount on utilities because they were privatised. Our rail, water, electricity grid, are hollowing out household and UK business finances, whilst making a lot of profit for foreign government shareholders. The profits leave the UK rather than being reinvested to improve the infrastructure.

Venture capital investment has hiked the prices on all sorts of other essentials, from dental care to veterinary care, to food. The sell offs of public services and lack of long term investment have come home to roost, to make it worse for the UK. This should make you angry - we have all been ripped off.

Your post is very interesting. I've noticed much of the above happening. How do we tackle it though? I know you said to write to our MPs, but my MP isn't Labour and probably won't have the power to do much. Is there anything else we could do?

Absolutely bang on in everything you have said.
Why can’t more people see this.

Most people on benefits are either pensioners or workers who aren't paid enough to live on. I feel that the solution must involve large corporations paying more, either directly to their employees or in tax. If a corporation is making a billion pounds profit a year, yet some of its employees can't afford to support themselves, then something is wrong.

So why didn’t successive Tory governments overturn “their benefits for so many” during the 14 years they were in power?

How is everyone poorer because of Labour ?
Not this Labour, but Blair/Brown.
Their benefits for so many has fucked up the country.

Could be some of a raft of measures - but everything that is stopped is then got around- eg/ Lorries pretty much aren’t used now but boats are.
We should be honest that globally things are getting harder for more people and they will naturally seek safety. Yes, that may impact on other countries but we have the benefits of globalisation we need to take on the responsibility too - and find a working solution - and remain a humane society.

I don’t think anywhere has resolved the issue with safe routes and it won’t be proposed mostly because the demand would be too high.

And the requirement for foreign aid to fix it is also not reachable.