Reform plans to scrap indefinite leave to remain for migrants

Mixing your insults there. Partridges and toads. Not sure they really work that well.

Although now I think of it, Mr Toad was a bit of a hero and helped save Toad Hall from the invasion by the weasels so maybe you are making a bit more of a statement than you realised.

He's been a politician for decades. He won't give a shit. In fact he would probably enjoy the attention.

At least toads don’t normally go up escalators, they like jumping.

BIGLY sad.

Covfefe

wHeRe’S mY nObEl pRiZeeeeee? < croak >

Respectfully, I think that’s quite a naive viewpoint of social media - it’s far more problematic and complex than people simply talking about their interests; there are a lot of research and studies emerging about algorithms, bots, paid posts and promoting political agendas. Brazil blocked Twitter/X for spreading misinformation (which it later lifted on negotiation of terms, fines, etc). And again, we also have to recognise that the media and the media owners also drive the narrative.

I totally understand why you avoid it, I think that’s certainly the healthiest approach to take.

Yes! This is a good insight. Mocking him would be a more appropriate response that us all discussing his proposals as though it was even worth debating if they have any kind of credibility.

We should all start calling him Mr Partridge and making croaking noises when he talks. What pompous buffoons like Farage and Trump hate the most is to be ridiculed so it would be good for the media and everyone else to start taking that approach. He deserves to be sniggered at like the delusional people who used to stand on little boxes in town centres wearing sandwich boards and blathering about the apocalypse. 😁

There’s also the Reform councillor who blamed immigrants for water shortages, rather than the widespread droughts we had this year.

I don’t think it can be changed much on SM, or should be as people talk about what interests them or they don’t like. And the media reflects that too.

I avoid a lot of it but mn is a fast indicator of things that have been said, it’s repeated quickly. Eg I now know something was said about swans.

The story was doing the rounds over twenty years ago, aimed at Eastern Europeans. It is just another example of Farage's disgusting bigotry.

Isn’t the swan eating thing an urban myth that has been popping up for decades? I’m sure I remember it being lobbed at the Bosnians who turned up here during the 90s.

Sorry, just to add to my most recent point, if anyone hasn’t seen the California governor Gavin Newsom’s social media approach to tackling Trump, then it’s definitely worth a look - I can’t imagine any high-profile British politicians using the same tactics, but I think it’s an interesting insight into how you can deal with the Trumps/Farages of the world.

@EasternStandard Yes, I think you make a really valid point and it’s frustrating that Farage and Reform seem to be dominating so much of the narrative in politics, the media and the comms from other parties - as you say, often it does seem to be counter-productive in that it just feeds into more attention for Farage. On the other hand, it’s so important for the other parties to challenge him/them directly, so it’s a tricky one to balance, especially within the climate of GB News, X, etc. Davey did discuss Farage/Reform, but he did also cover other really important issues and policy, which then seems to get lost in the Farage headlines.
I think all of the other parties would benefit from driving their own clear Farage-free narratives more, although I would also add that I think we need some serious MSM and social media reform too.

I haven’t listened but on another thread someone did watch Ed Davey’s speech. He talked a lot about Reform? I do think people give him a lot of air time. Probably not for the outcome they’re after.

I think it would be good to avoid long rants in general. Mr Farage's and anyone else's.

All very good points. I hadn’t even considered about the timing of his “swan eating” claims but what you say makes perfect sense; another deliberate attempt to distract from genuine public discourse and debate on the issues that matter.

Much of the media are giving him and his rants far too much air time, particularly given that they lack any credibility as serious proposals.

It all very much has the feel of propaganda designed to deliberately mislead and shift the Overton Window and as you say, if successful in normalising the disgusting misogynistic and xenophobic views and the disgusting and ignorant attitudes to disabled people he has been promoting then it will be very difficult to move back towards a decent and stable society again even after Reform falls apart. The damage being wreaked is likely to take decades to repair, if it happens at all.

There’s certainly informed, constructive and compassionate debate to be had on immigration - but this won’t come from Farage or anyone else in Reform; so much of this is deflection from his role in Brexit (which dramatically changed and increased immigration) with a side of populism for GB News and the like to churn out. The timing to coincide with the Lib Dem conference makes me think of Steve Banon’s recommended ‘Flood the zone’ approach with Trump (I mean today’s swan eating headline-grabber is textbook Trumpian).

My other worry is that this is moving politics further and further to the right: is Farage paving the way and opening up the potential for the likes of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon? Farage likes to brag about all of their party members/subscribers, but he has courted ‘Tommy Robinson’ supporters amongst them and how far will he go to get/keep their vote? And if/when his policies fail and/or the Reform party follows the same breakdown that Farage’s previous parties have, who will they turn to? It’s highly unlikely it will be one of the traditional main parties.

I don't think people are cheerleading for Dubai itself. I wasn't. It was just a country that had been referred to yesterday as somewhere where you can never achieve citizenship. That's what I meant (for clarification. Just to nip this in the bud before people get side tracked and waste their time descrbing the Dubai immigration system😆 ). And that educated people do still go there for whatever reason they chose to.

I'm not advocating for their immigration system obviously, having had quite a few long discussions with poor immigrant workers in Dubai. Not nice.

Exactly! It’s difficult to understand how anybody could think that there’s any comparison at all between the immigration system here and in Dubai, or should be and imagine if there was and foreigners were subject to more permissive laws, lived in separate, exclusive and luxurious compounds protected by security, and paid no tax at all! I’m sure that’d go down so well with Reform voters. 😆

As you say, the cluelessness of some of these posts would be hilarious if it wasn’t for the damage that Farage’s supporters will inflict not just on themselves but on everyone else in our society if they are successful in voting in enough Reform MPs to form a Government. 😔

If this wasn't so seriously cruel to people who find their lives here thrown into limbo, I would be very amused by posters who are so desperate to stick it to the immigrants that they end up cheerleading for effectively the opposite of what they pretend they want from said immigrants.

Foreigners who stay in separate ghettoes and scarcely interact with local people, don't bother to learn the language or integrate, treat the country like a temporary holiday stopover that they care nothing for and only what they can extract for short-term personal benefit and don't pay any tax. Imagine the outrage!

Just seen this article about Mr Toad claiming that migrants are eating swans:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/royal-parks-debunks-farage-claim-migrants-eating-swans-2f2x86msl

😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆 😆

While I accept that one would expect a toad to be knowledgeable about ponds, it seems that Royal Parks have refuted his claim as completely unevidenced (like everything else the comes out of his mouth).

What makes it even more funny is that his said that swans were being eaten in Royal Parks (not taken from them)… the mental image of these imagined hordes of migrants in busy parks in our capital city grabbing swans, killing them with their bare hands and having a little picnic of raw swan meat by the side of the lake without anyone noticing this phenomenon.

He seems to be turning into an Alan Partridge caricature now with these increasingly absurd claims…

“Your donkeys are probably born without hind legs because of all the chemicals you put in their chips!

The plums have mutated and they’ve got beaks!

You make pigs smoke!

You feed beef burgers to swans!

You have big sheds that nobody’s allowed in, and inside these big sheds are 20ft high chickens. These chickens are scared, they don’t know why they’re so big!”

It’s hysterical that anybody could believe this weirdo to be Prime Minister material.

There’s so much misunderstanding about this, isn’t there? In many (most?) countries marrying a foreign citizen means requirements for length of residency to obtain citizenship are relaxed. In Portugal they even do this for long-term relationships without being married (although you have to evidence a long-term committed relationship). In other countries different requirements are waived or reduced such as required income thresholds. In others there’s no relaxation of rules for spouses.

I’m not aware of a single country on Earth that provides an automatic right to citizenship of a spouse immediately after marriage to a citizen so it’s odd people were saying that to you! I guess it shows that the people making those comments really have no idea how immigration and citizenship systems work. But I also can’t think of any western countries which don’t allow permanent residency for a foreign spouse of one of their citizens (although many of course apply reasonable conditions such as not being a convicted criminal!), for all the very good reasons discussed on the thread: it would be cruel and an act of economic self-harm to be so pointlessly draconian.

I also can’t think of any other country which has retrospectively removed permanent resident status from people en masse like Farage has proposed but perhaps someone has an example showing it’s not some completely crazed idea of Farage’s and has a legitimate aim of some kind, has been done before somewhere else and achieved some kind of beneficial outcome for that country… I won’t hold my breath though!

Are you trying to engage again?

I haven’t looked countries up but for a start aren’t there more limitations for the Dutch than here wrt passports etc?

Yes agreed. Horrible workers rights and they pinch their passports. Bad example.

Obviously my point was that you can attract software engineers if the environment is right without necessarily giving them full citizenship before 10 years. Like.most countries.