Right-wing American Pied Piper Charlie Kirk assassinated

The Kavanaugh attempted assassination? Some disturbed guy who was not a registered republican or democrat, who bought everything he thought he'd need, including a gun (which he had to practice using because he had no clue), put it in a backpack, flew across the country, rocked up at Kavanaughs house, saw the security and called 911 himself 🙄

I think people are talking about kirk more is because the loudest voices are those just like him. Racist, misogynistic, violent white men 🤷‍♀️
You can see on these threads just how empowered those with racist views have become.
Trump has made hate and violence acceptable, fanning the flames and revelling in the 'legitimacy' incidences like this give him to employ even more hateful tactics.

Epstein who?

Nor can we assume that it proves he is left wing.

And of course we don't have that fact in isolation.

Yea but that appearance says absolutely nothing about the shooters political leanings now does it.

Yes of course it was. That doesn't negate its appearance more recently on alt right playlists.

The analogy with cars doesn't work without accepting that cars are more heavily regulated than guns.

There would be far fewer gun deaths and mass shootings if they were as heavily regulated as cars and:

1. You had to have a licence and pass a test to own a gun.
2. If you had to have insurance.
3. If you had to have extra training and pass additional tests to have the most powerful guns (like HGV drivers)
4. If your licence and right to own a gun was taken away and you risked prison for carrying in a dangerous fashion or while drunk.
5. If police could stop you and ask to see your licence
6. If you were banned from owning guns if you had certain medical conditions (including some mental health conditions)
7. If civilians weren't allowed AR15s and other high powered guns in the same way they aren't allowed to drive F1 cars or monster trucks round the streets of a city.
8. If gun makers were more focussed on safety - building guns that only worked with fingerprint recognition (or something else equivalent to seatbelts and crumple zones) rather than just developing more powerful and deadly weapons.

But 2A proponents and the NRA have not allowed any of that to be put in place because they hide behind a 250 year old document, written at a time when the only gun available was a musket, long rifle or pistol.

Oh for goodness sakes. Why would someone right wing want to assassinate the right's poster boy?

Really? You know that not all right wing people share the same views? Look at Tory and reform in the UK for example.

In the US Nick Fuentes and his America First lot had some radically different views from Charlie Kirk and his Turning Point lot.

It's a fact that Bella Ciao made it onto the America First playlists. It's part of the bigger picture that TR was raised in a conservative, trump supporting, gun loving family. Those are the facts. He wasn't a raving lefty.

Oh for goodness sakes. Why would someone right wing want to assassinate the right's poster boy? There's already quotes in the news from people he was at school with saying he was anti-Trump.

I think I need to leave this thread now. Do those on the left holding up these strawmen and making these silly arguments not realise you are only emboldening the people you disagree with? This is exactly why Charlie Kirk was so influential - because he made the left look stupid.

Bella Ciao has been a well recognised anti fascist song long before it made it on to the American First play lists. How do you explain this on one of the other casings: Hey fascist! Catch!”.

It's a fact that Bella Ciao made it onto the America First playlists. It's part of the bigger picture that TR was raised in a conservative, trump supporting, gun loving family. Those are the facts. He wasn't a raving lefty. There's nothing to suggest that other than a number of republicans announcing it yesterday.

As I said. Shocking comment.

I don't have a narrative - just following all the facts as they arrive. You've the one that has jumped on the one element that fits your narrative.

He has explicitly said that he thinks some murders are fine, because they’re the price for having the right to bear arms. Which is directly opposed to his belief that life is sacred - you cannot believe that life is sacred when conception occurs, but then say that it is fine to take lives away because it suits your preference on gun control.

@IGaveSoManySigns We've already been round this one. You could make the exact same analogy with "some car deaths are fine so we can have the right to drive" which I'm sure you agree with. Why does the utility of a car outweigh the right of a child not to die in a traffic accident?

And his argument wasn't that life is sacred, his argument is that life begins at conception which means abortion is murder. If you believe that a foetus is a human being then this is an entirely rational point of view.

You're arguing against the wrong parts of the argument and in doing so you're actually weakening your point of view. The reason Charlie Kirk was so influential was because he posted videos of himself arguing against people who couldn't debate him and he made his arguments look much stronger than they were.

Thinking, I thunk the reason people are talking more about Kirk than they did about Hortman or Shapiro or Whitmer or Salas or Hoffman or Pelosi is bc those all happened in private. Kirk's murder was so public & captured in graphic detail.

A right wing poster on another thread asked why nobody knows about the Kavanagh attempted assassination. The same reason imo : it took place in private.

Ofc also this is a UK forum so US news will take less precedence generally.

Is she a Mossad theorist?

I guess what I posted didn't fit your narrative. Doesn't stop it being true.

Oh come off it - yes Bella Ciao is used by both sides. The rest of the messages are anti-fascist, and everything else is indicating strong anti-fascist leaning. Try engaging your brain rather than just reading the latest bilge on social media.

It's far too late though - there are too many guns out there and if you start banning them, then just means that the people who have them won't be the nice law abiding types who would only use them for defence.

The only thing is to stop the polarisation, division and othering of people with different views, but if anything that's quickly going the wrong way.

I dread to think what's going to happen there in the next few years - I just hope that if one thing comes out of it, it's that it wakes up the rest of the western world before it's too late for us too.

And in a simple twist of fate Bella Ciao has been part of the America First / groyper play list. I'm sure you must have seen this online. TR was no anti-fascist.

Professional eh? Seems it's exactly as the pp said.

What do you mean by professional hit?

Experts say that the shooting and distance was considered achievable even for an untrained shooter with basic optical sights and some practice.

And they also say the way the gun was assembled showed he wasn't an expert.

How do you feel about this post now, @Newton161 ?

Those who dismiss 'both sides' and just damn the left should remember the vile reactions, including from Trump, to Nancy & Paul Pelosi's ordeal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Paul_Pelosi

Ofc given their 'Obama has gay hookups and Michelle is a man' obsession, some had to suggest Paul Pelosi had been having an affair with the murderer.

It's also grim how Musk just uses any death to bash the left, rather than the guilty. It this case it was the left, but w poor Ms Hortman & her husband, he spread misinformation about the killer being leftist when he was the opposite

Watch the Oxford and Cambridge ones.

You’ve been incredibly rude.

I stand by saying he isn’t anti-murder. He has explicitly said that he thinks some murders are fine, because they’re the price for having the right to bear arms. Which is directly opposed to his belief that life is sacred - you cannot believe that life is sacred when conception occurs, but then say that it is fine to take lives away because it suits your preference on gun control.