Right-wing American Pied Piper Charlie Kirk assassinated

Probs online influence and not college at all.

He had only been speaking of his view that had concerned his family recently.
He was at Utah University over 4 years ago, so unlikely that establishment is the issue.

I was responding to a post stating that he had been brought up conservative and must have been manipulated on campus. I pointed out that a single semester at Utah University seems unlikely to have such an impact.

Why are early twenty year olds the same as their parents? There’s another thread on someone who is upset their dc have gone to a march.

There’s nothing to say any 22 year old mirrors the older adults’ views.

It’s not a left wing issue/problem. It’s Americans obsession with the second amendment and the ongoing’thoughts and prayers’ every time there is a mass shooting. They put their right to own a gun higher than their children’s safety at school.
In the US more under 18’s die from gun crime than any other reason.

Robinson went to Utah State university for one semester in 2021.
Fairly flimsey upbringing if it is undone in 4 months.

Unless you are suggesting the electrical apprenticeship programme at Dixie Technical College, Utah is a hotbed of lefty activists which seems unlikely.

It matters because as soon as the shooting happened people like Mace and Trump, among many many others, immediately tried to lay the blame on democrats. Loudly and firmly. Truth matters. They were wrong. Mace has now changed her tune, no more calling for the death penalty.

I honestly don't believe it...I think you've been manipulated. I think society has become polarised and polluted with distorted views. They should put ban young people from Facebook, twitter, tikTok, Instagram....and teach children to love and understand each other..... accept everyone for what they are....Most teachers do that....gay, trans, straight,white, of colour, of different beliefs....it does matter because children learn to overcome barriers and don't have the same problems that adults do

To be fair this started with Trump and Mace instantly blaming the left.

I love the way some Americans view a firearm as some form of right and protection. Is it any wonder why the US police are so ready to open fire on suspects. It must be terrifying for the police considering the level of gun ownership.

The only firearms that people should own are those designated for hunting. Handguns , semi auto weapons, pump action shotguns, high powered rifles ....these should all be banned

The shooter was brought up in a conservative home.
He had been manipulated in his thoughts by left wing ideology in his educational establishment and online.
His parents didn’t recognise his words and were concerned about them.
Its no different than a child raised in a good home who goes off the tracks because he mixes with the wrong people.

Well, the shooter was right wing, and Kirk was not the "right wing poster boy".

His widow is now using his death to threaten violence and spread hate. Maybe he wasn't the picture perfect guy you think he is?

That would definitely go well in a country the size of the USA and given the level of gun ownership and strength of feeling. How many lives would raids like that cost I wonder?

And it would still leave all the remaining guns, of which there would be many, in the hands of exactly the kind of people who you wouldn’t want to have them.

A gun free US is a nice fantasy for some, but it is just that - a fantasy.

And a life without liberty is not much of a life.

Just ban the guns, start with an amnesty and then start raiding homes and taking the ones people refuse to give up. It's not rocket science....lives before liberty 🗽

Rational the guy was a raving evangelical nut job and took pleasure in tearing apart people live on air. You can't pick and choose what part of Christianity you want....liberty isn't owning a gun....it's utter nonsense. Try debating liberty with the children killed in school shootings....

The guy got shot and his own words a few deaths are worth the liberty of being free to own a gun. From my opinion is that if gun ownership means that people keep repeatably shooting innocent people that my argument is where is the liberty for the victims....

America is lost....it doesn't understand right and wrong.

Has anyone answered this yet?

Dribble

So many people on social media confidently saying he was this or that

I don't understand why it even matters? If he turned out to be a democrat that doesn't mean democrats support political violence. Same as if he turned out to be a republican. Why do we think one lone lunatic is representative of a political group?

He could claim to be left wing or anti-fascist or whatever but he certainly doesn't align with anything I believe in. People are saying "he looks like one of you lot" when really they should be saying "we want unity and peace and nothing to do with this".

If they had stricter gun laws he might be alive today. It's as simple as that. And the highest fatalities from guns are all in the Red States - Mississipi, Alaska, Tennessee, Texas, Louisiana etc. Where gun laws are very lax.

Yep, so fast too.

It's super frustrating isn't it. So many people on social media confidently saying he was this or that.. You'd hope at some stage people learn not to believe everything that spreads on social media and just wait for official information (and even then we might never know his beliefs).

People are running with it. They don’t know the beliefs of the shooter.

@VanessaFence - I think we are in agreement.

The car analogy is patently ridiculous but it is one that is generally raised by 2A proponents so the point is to systematically dismantel it by agreeing and saying you're right - so lets regulate them in the same way rather than arguing that they are different.

Not that it would work as they would just spin another strawman - probably something about cars not being in the constitution or backpeddling to the position that they aren't the same.

The trust issue and nonsense about fighting back against the government can also easily be refuted because, as you say, there is no chance that even an AR15 is going to be much use against military grade tech.

Even if sentiment changed and there was more of a push towards amending 2A, there are so many guns in America now that it would have to start with regulation, an outright ban is totally unfeasible. Another quick way to reduce gun usage would be to tax ammunition!

Almost every single pro gun argument can easily be shown to be flawed. The strongest argument has always been the fall-back that it is in the constitution, but Trump has blown a huge hole in that one now given how much of the constitution he has subverted.

I have always been very much in the anti-gun camp, but with everything happening over there at the minute, I do think that if I lived in the US I would be looking at buying a gun and learning how to use it.

The Purge and Handmaids Tale is starting to look more and more like the future of the US than exaggerated dystopian entertainment.

@BloominNora but then the argument you're making is for stricter gun control when I think most left wing people, especially in the UK, don't think people should be allowed to own guns at all.

The argument against stricter gun control is that they don't trust the government to implement this. If ultimately the second amendment is about reducing the risk of a tyrannical government then it's dangerous to allow the government to control who can and can't own a gun. Given the current state of US politics I can see their point.

I fundamentally disagree because I believe the risk of being shot in America is far higher than the risk of a military coup. And even if there was one I don't think Jim Bob with his rifle in the shed is going to have much chance against a 21st century US military.

OMG! This is how crazy people are.

There was no trans ideology on the bullets. No political ideology.
They were references from online games.

Such stupidity shines a great big spotlight on how these vile people are able to grab and retain followers and power 🤷‍♀️