Is Trump dead?

If one of them had, would the USA still have a democracy?

Again, that's true; but how many children may he have been implicated in killing? I genuinely don't know the answer to that, because the only scandal I recall about him involved sexual misbehaviour. And there's some stuff about money but it doesn't seem to have been all that real, as opposed to mud being slung. You know, like "but her emails!" was mud-slinging.

JFK had sex-scandals as well, didn't he? And of course he escalated Vietnam, which I found very hard to forgive at the time.

Powerful men tend to be shits. US Presidents have done a lot of shitty things.

How many of them though have launched an attack against democracy in the same way as Trump and his team?

Clinton was certainly a sleaze and a liar.

We're being very biased. We really need at least two Democrats to set against those two, don't we.

Come on, Trump supporters! Let's hear from you on this! I'm not all that informed about American presidential murderous criminality.

(Clinton? Carter? Johnson? Kennedy? This is receding into history; how about Truman or Roosevelt?)

Ah, yes. Reagan.

Iran/Contra.

next !

Yes, of whom Nixon is the glaring example everyone knows about. But name another? Because Nixon got caught and got rid of, after all.

Reagan is widely believed to have had Alzheimer's (which was covered up by his associates) for at least some of the time he was in the White House. I wonder what we will find out about Trump's mental condition once he's out of office.

No. That’s purely deaths arising from the sudden cessation of aid. Babies and small children dying because their medication disappeared overnight for example.

Thanks, Harriet: that's interesting. It doesn't include domestic US deaths, or deaths in wars, so the full figure must be rather more.

But it does remind us there have been criminal presidents before.

https://www.impactcounter.com/dashboard?view=table&sort=title&order=asc

I hope this link works. It’s a counter for the number of people dying in the world every day as a result of Trump’s decision to end overseas aid. For those who won’t click on links or in case it doesn’t work, today it estimates 149,676 adults and 311,291 children have so far died because of this, with around 88 people dying every hour.

I don’t wish Trump dead but I certainly wouldn’t be sorry if he was.

True. But nothing like as much as Trump has.

Just to add this poster feels this way about Axel "Meanwhile I wish Axel Radubakana was dead. And for the record I think he looked like a wild maniac on his mugshot" and Hitler who wanted to murder every Jewish man, woman and child is less evil and she mentioned hes a white man. Hitler looked normal according this poster where as Axel looked like a wild maniac. They are both evil and deranged human beings that should have been locked away in a mental asylum a long time ago. What has the colour of someone's skin got to do with it?

JudithDunbar
Trump who is certainly not good, but hardly evil. Whereas monsters who slaughter children don't inspire anywhere near the same level of hatred.

I am not sure about that "hardly evil", in fact. Trump isn't personally slaughtering children, but he is causing the deaths of a great many more children than most school shooters, or than Axel Radubakana, could start to dream of. He is facilitating Putin's murderers bombing them, in schools and in hospitals and in their beds at night. Oh, and torturing them, and raping them, in the occupied territories Trump suggests should be given to Putin absolutely.

I honestly can't see any particular reason not to detest Trump.

Nixon deliberately engineered the Vietnam war to continue (by pressuring the South Vietnamese into not accepting a peace deal) in order to boost his election chances.

He too has blood on his hands.

A totally random person with no connection to a discussion on Trump was brought up and posters on this thread criticised for not having said anything about him. Who knows whether they ever have? He is utterly irrelevant. And then it’s implied that this was because Trump is white and he is black?

Trump is also responsible for the deaths of many, many children. He’s been criticised for this by international aid organisations. People don’t dislike him because he uses too much fake tan.

Does differently? He’s trampled on the constitution, incited an insurgency and behaves utterly inappropriately in both his terms of office. He’s made it known that one of his aims in office is to make serious amounts of money for his family and it’s a sign of how far adrift from norms the US now is that this corruption barely registered. He’s a convicted criminal.

I suspect quite a few previous Presidents have behaved very badly in their private lives. We know some of some of it. But politically he is unprecedented, and he is supported in the White House by the creators of Project 2025, who would like to upend American democracy.

They see colour not the person's character and who they are. The person Judith was agreeing with said "Meanwhile white man be likened to Hitler". You noticed she didn't bring up Axels colour she's being provocative.

Yes of course they are. But its not expressing dislike or disapproval. It's wishing death on someone like Trump who is certainly not good, but hardly evil. Whereas monsters who slaughter children don't inspire anywhere near the same level of hatred. It's wrong.

BuildsLikeASkyscraper
I think the pattern in which Trump is disliked is interesting: I wonder if he actually does or thinks anything different to the long gallery of previous American presidents and similarly powerful men

I think very few American Presidents of recent decades have so obviously supported genocidal dictators. This may explain why Trump is disliked more than (say) Ford, or even Nixon: he boasts about "love letters" from Kim Jung Un, and cosies up to Putin and makes admiring remarks about how clever that murderous thug is. It's a sorry and an easily dislikable spectacle.

The worst Nixon did was peculation on a grand scale; Trump (in addition to a shocking level of peculation) is causing many deaths, and his short-sighted policies are likely to cause many more, even after he has himself died. Well, they are causing them already, in fact. Go ask in states where they have got no disaster relief, or very delayed relief, because Trump thinks it's a waste of money to provide it... Drown, suckers: you ought to have been born somewhere else.

So are people only allowed to express dislike/disapproval of one person if they also list at the same time absolutely everyone else in the world they also dislike? However unrelated to the topic in hand?

How bizarre this argument is. Take a random other person and insert them in this discussion as an epic bit of whataboutery.

The problem is Trump, Putin and Farage are inciting hate. Ukrainians are having to fight to survive. Trump's father was a Ku Klux Klan member, and Trump is a product of his upbringing the things that he has said about women and people from ethnic minorities is disgusting and the world has 4 years to put up with him. What can I say about Farage? Every time I read the paper all I see is angry English people protesting outside hotels it won't be long until someone dies. Hate does kill you're right. My partner was part of the 80's riots in London to end the brutality against black people. It won't be long before there is another riot in this country.

He's obese by BMI, but not - as per the original post I responded to - morbidly so. People who don't like him tend to exaggerate the obesity and have negative emotions about his perceived bad health, which they attribute to his own actions e.g. his reported fast food diet. Perhaps that implies a moral failing which he now embodies.

I'm interested in the fury sometimes directed at Trump's body. Not to mention his vulgar tastes. I think the pattern in which Trump is disliked is interesting: I wonder if he actually does or thinks anything different to the long gallery of previous American presidents and similarly powerful men or if he outrages because the bad stuff seems to be on the surface.