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Original poster

This migrant problem is going to let Reform in isn’t it?

916 replies

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 24/07/2025 12:33

Honestly it’s such a bloody nightmare. Reform are making a total hash of local government from what I’ve read, putting teenagers in charge of whole departments with no relevant experience. What are they going to do if they are elected to run a country!!!! I’m honestly terrified. Labour need to be seen to be actively doing something to quell the far-right momentum that’s gaining traction from ordinary folk. I’m amazed at the average, usually pretty sensible people around me who are now telling me they are going to vote Reform.

there was an interview I saw yesterday where the minister said that thousands of people were being deported regularly. The interviewer asked why there were no videos of this and she said there could be. Well let’s see it! It would absolutely help.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
24
EasternStandard · 04/08/2025 09:39

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:23

@EasternStandard good point. It’s also interesting that Australia’s policy of offshore processing was scaled back by the Labor government and then reinstated in 2012 by another Labor government, so it’s had a pretty good test of its efficacy.

Yep it’s been around for a while. It had opposition, similar to here maybe. But now it’s bipartisan, politicians won’t run on overturning anything because it works.

Alexandra2001 · 04/08/2025 09:39

strawberrybubblegum · 04/08/2025 09:34

Well let's at least try @Alexandra2001 If Rwanda as originally set up isn't sufficient, then we can increase numbers.

You cannot make Rwanda or anyone else take larger numbers, they do not want large numbers of migrants in their country either.

Rwanda already has an unemployment rate of 11%....

So they agreed just 300 in the first year, we had 1000 cross in ONE day recently....

As pp said, there would be a lag, so we would need Rwanda to build accommodation for many 1000s initially.

So no one can suggest a country willing......

EasternStandard · 04/08/2025 09:38

Alexandra2001 · 04/08/2025 09:29

Of course there is a lag.... hence the need to take large numbers initially.

Deportations carried on because not all boats intercepted bt their policy required almost 100% compliance and both policies.....

No, Rwanda said 5000 over 5 years, 300 in the first year....Look at the accommodation built? just 257 units, only 1/3rd for migrants....... so the numbers weren't high enough.... its basic... if just 2% of migrants crossing are deported, thats a big enough reason to carrying on crossing.

150 have drowned or feared to be, crossing into Yemen yesterday, it will not stop them, if death wont, then a 2% risk of deportation will not either.

Australia turned back or deported almost all migrants.

We come back to the facts, if it were easy, countries like Italy with right Govts would have done it by now.

Show quote history

I don’t mind if people advocate for both policies, if that’s what you’re after.

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:37

@Alexandra2001 where’s the evidence to suggest that deporting 300 illegal immigrants crossing the channel in one year to Rwanda wouldn’t be a sufficient deterrent? Bearing in mind they are setting off from France.

strawberrybubblegum · 04/08/2025 09:34

Well let's at least try @Alexandra2001 If Rwanda as originally set up isn't sufficient, then we can increase numbers.

caringcarer · 04/08/2025 09:33

BurntBroccoli · 04/08/2025 08:50

Pulling the UK out of the ECHR? Polls have shown that 70% of people do not want this. We are already a polarised society and this would create even more division.
The following are some potential effects of leaving:

Loss of Access to the European Court of Human Rights
UK citizens would no longer be able to take human rights cases to the Strasbourg Court after exhausting domestic remedies.This removes a key layer of external accountability for the UK government.

Undermining the Human Rights Act (1998)
The Human Rights Act (HRA) incorporates the ECHR into UK law. Leaving the ECHR would almost certainly require repealing or significantly rewriting the HRA. Courts could no longer interpret UK laws in line with ECHR rights, reducing protections.

Impact on Devolved Administrations
The ECHR is embedded in the Good Friday Agreement (Northern Ireland), and in the legal frameworks of Scotland and Wales. Withdrawal could breach the Good Friday Agreement and lead to constitutional tensions, possibly encouraging calls for independence.

Breaching International Agreements
The Good Friday Agreement and some aspects of the UK–EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement assume continued adherence to the ECHR. Leaving may be viewed as a breach of international law or undermine trust in UK treaty commitments.

Impact on EU Relations
The ECHR is not part of the EU, but EU agreements with non-member countries often require compliance with it. Leaving the ECHR could damage UK–EU cooperation on:
• Data sharing
• Criminal justice
• Extradition (e.g. the UK’s replacement for the European Arrest Warrant)

Reputation and Soft Power
The UK has historically played a leading role in promoting human rights. Withdrawal could damage the UK’s global image as a defender of the rule of law and human rights. It could align the UK more closely with countries like Russia or Belarus, which are not part of the ECHR.

Impact on Individuals
Reduced Legal Protections
Rights such as:
•Freedom from torture (Article 3)
•Right to a fair trial (Article 6)
•Right to privacy (Article 8)
•Protection from discrimination (Article 14)
could be weakened or harder to enforce.

Increased Executive Power
With less judicial oversight, government decisions may face fewer legal checks, especially in sensitive areas like:
• Immigration and asylum
• Policing and surveillance
• Prisoner rights

Polarisation and Division
Leaving the ECHR would likely deepen political divides both within Parliament and across the UK public. It may become a focal point in broader debates about sovereignty, Brexit, and judicial overreach.

Devolution and Independence Movements
Leaving could inflame support for Scottish independence and Irish reunification, especially if people feel their rights are being eroded.

Show quote history

You've hit the nail on the head increased executive power. A Reform government would have control of immigration and return boats to wherever they came from. You ignored the part of my post stating Reform would create a UK Bill of Rights with pretty much all of the other other rights copied and pasted in. Just leaving the UK free to refusing the boats. Are you trying to suggest 70 percent of UK world not want to stop these boats? If so you are deluded. Why do you think Reform has become so popular?

Alexandra2001 · 04/08/2025 09:29

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:04

@Alexandra2001 surely it’s only to be expected that the deportation policy would involve a lag? All significant policies do, particularly in areas such as these where illegal boat journeys to Australia are saved for and arranged months of not years in advance.

If turn back on its own worked (or any other aspect of the policy for that matter) why did they persist with the hugely expensive and controversial deportation plan?

It’s been well established that Rwanda were willing to take numbers in a sufficient number to act as a workable deterrent.

Of course there is a lag.... hence the need to take large numbers initially.

Deportations carried on because not all boats intercepted bt their policy required almost 100% compliance and both policies.....

No, Rwanda said 5000 over 5 years, 300 in the first year....Look at the accommodation built? just 257 units, only 1/3rd for migrants....... so the numbers weren't high enough.... its basic... if just 2% of migrants crossing are deported, thats a big enough reason to carrying on crossing.

150 have drowned or feared to be, crossing into Yemen yesterday, it will not stop them, if death wont, then a 2% risk of deportation will not either.

Australia turned back or deported almost all migrants.

We come back to the facts, if it were easy, countries like Italy with right Govts would have done it by now.

User135644 · 04/08/2025 09:25

strawberrybubblegum · 04/08/2025 09:22

All international agreements come down to negotiation. Membership of ECHR certainly isn’t the only way to make deals - reaching agreement based on our domestic laws might take some discussion, but certainly isn’t any kind of blocker.

We are as you say leaders in human rights and have our own laws which guarantee freedom from discrimination etc. That's enough.

As for soft power, do you really think that countries who use this to justify their own actions (which fall significantly lower than what's required by our domestic laws, not only ECHR) would change their behaviour based on our membership or not? That's rather... naive.

Increased executive power: yes. That's the whole point. Judges and human rights organisations should not be able to override political choices.

Polarisation: you're having a laugh! It's the current situation which is ripping our country apart. It can't continue.

Membership of EHCR has brought some benefits, but it's a question of whether the benefits justify the costs (financial and social). If the government can't find a way to operate successfully within EHCR in our current global world - with control of immigration and crime in particular - then we will have to come out.

Show quote history

I'd leave ECHR because its become a criminals charter. But its not a catch all solution. Activist lawyers and liberal judges will still lead our politicians and civil servants by the nose.

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:23

@EasternStandard good point. It’s also interesting that Australia’s policy of offshore processing was scaled back by the Labor government and then reinstated in 2012 by another Labor government, so it’s had a pretty good test of its efficacy.

strawberrybubblegum · 04/08/2025 09:22

BurntBroccoli · 04/08/2025 08:50

Pulling the UK out of the ECHR? Polls have shown that 70% of people do not want this. We are already a polarised society and this would create even more division.
The following are some potential effects of leaving:

Loss of Access to the European Court of Human Rights
UK citizens would no longer be able to take human rights cases to the Strasbourg Court after exhausting domestic remedies.This removes a key layer of external accountability for the UK government.

Undermining the Human Rights Act (1998)
The Human Rights Act (HRA) incorporates the ECHR into UK law. Leaving the ECHR would almost certainly require repealing or significantly rewriting the HRA. Courts could no longer interpret UK laws in line with ECHR rights, reducing protections.

Impact on Devolved Administrations
The ECHR is embedded in the Good Friday Agreement (Northern Ireland), and in the legal frameworks of Scotland and Wales. Withdrawal could breach the Good Friday Agreement and lead to constitutional tensions, possibly encouraging calls for independence.

Breaching International Agreements
The Good Friday Agreement and some aspects of the UK–EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement assume continued adherence to the ECHR. Leaving may be viewed as a breach of international law or undermine trust in UK treaty commitments.

Impact on EU Relations
The ECHR is not part of the EU, but EU agreements with non-member countries often require compliance with it. Leaving the ECHR could damage UK–EU cooperation on:
• Data sharing
• Criminal justice
• Extradition (e.g. the UK’s replacement for the European Arrest Warrant)

Reputation and Soft Power
The UK has historically played a leading role in promoting human rights. Withdrawal could damage the UK’s global image as a defender of the rule of law and human rights. It could align the UK more closely with countries like Russia or Belarus, which are not part of the ECHR.

Impact on Individuals
Reduced Legal Protections
Rights such as:
•Freedom from torture (Article 3)
•Right to a fair trial (Article 6)
•Right to privacy (Article 8)
•Protection from discrimination (Article 14)
could be weakened or harder to enforce.

Increased Executive Power
With less judicial oversight, government decisions may face fewer legal checks, especially in sensitive areas like:
• Immigration and asylum
• Policing and surveillance
• Prisoner rights

Polarisation and Division
Leaving the ECHR would likely deepen political divides both within Parliament and across the UK public. It may become a focal point in broader debates about sovereignty, Brexit, and judicial overreach.

Devolution and Independence Movements
Leaving could inflame support for Scottish independence and Irish reunification, especially if people feel their rights are being eroded.

Show quote history

All international agreements come down to negotiation. Membership of ECHR certainly isn’t the only way to make deals - reaching agreement based on our domestic laws might take some discussion, but certainly isn’t any kind of blocker.

We are as you say leaders in human rights and have our own laws which guarantee freedom from discrimination etc. That's enough.

As for soft power, do you really think that countries who use this to justify their own actions (which fall significantly lower than what's required by our domestic laws, not only ECHR) would change their behaviour based on our membership or not? That's rather... naive.

Increased executive power: yes. That's the whole point. Judges and human rights organisations should not be able to override political choices.

Polarisation: you're having a laugh! It's the current situation which is ripping our country apart. It can't continue.

Membership of EHCR has brought some benefits, but it's a question of whether the benefits justify the costs (financial and social). If the government can't find a way to operate successfully within EHCR in our current global world - with control of immigration and crime in particular - then we will have to come out.

User135644 · 04/08/2025 09:17

caringcarer · 04/08/2025 02:04

Near to where I live a 12 year old has been raped by a migrants who allegedly came over on a dinghy. Of course people are angry. These people should be sent back immediately. It's almost always boats full of males. Reform will stop these boats by pulling the UK out of the ECHR and creating a UK Bill of Rights.

Funny how countries like Poland and Hungary manage to tell the ECHR to get stuffed. Even the Scandi nations now.

Our own weakness is the problem.

EasternStandard · 04/08/2025 09:10

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:04

@Alexandra2001 surely it’s only to be expected that the deportation policy would involve a lag? All significant policies do, particularly in areas such as these where illegal boat journeys to Australia are saved for and arranged months of not years in advance.

If turn back on its own worked (or any other aspect of the policy for that matter) why did they persist with the hugely expensive and controversial deportation plan?

It’s been well established that Rwanda were willing to take numbers in a sufficient number to act as a workable deterrent.

It’d be fast now. Traffickers spread information like wildfire on SM and people using their services share it too.

My answer to the pp is the same as yours. An effective deterrent such as Aus would keep numbers low enough to use Rwanda.

AzurePanda · 04/08/2025 09:04

@Alexandra2001 surely it’s only to be expected that the deportation policy would involve a lag? All significant policies do, particularly in areas such as these where illegal boat journeys to Australia are saved for and arranged months of not years in advance.

If turn back on its own worked (or any other aspect of the policy for that matter) why did they persist with the hugely expensive and controversial deportation plan?

It’s been well established that Rwanda were willing to take numbers in a sufficient number to act as a workable deterrent.

Alexandra2001 · 04/08/2025 08:53

EasternStandard · 03/08/2025 21:32

I don’t answer because it’s the same badgering on every thread. You first need to accept the numbers will be low.

If you do actually accept that then great. Can you?

Show quote history

What worked in Australia? deportations to Nauru OR the "Turnback/Take back" policy?
Most likely a combination.....

Until the turnback policy took place, deportations made no difference to numbers arriving, in fact, they went up.

So if you want a deterrent and yes i agree there needs to be one, it will need to be able to deport the numbers arriving and of those here.....

So a few 100 will not work in the first instance, if the policy worked, then yes numbers would be v small but we need to get to that point first, which means a country willing to accept 1000s within the first year.

Now, can you name such a country?

BurntBroccoli · 04/08/2025 08:50

caringcarer · 04/08/2025 02:04

Near to where I live a 12 year old has been raped by a migrants who allegedly came over on a dinghy. Of course people are angry. These people should be sent back immediately. It's almost always boats full of males. Reform will stop these boats by pulling the UK out of the ECHR and creating a UK Bill of Rights.

Pulling the UK out of the ECHR? Polls have shown that 70% of people do not want this. We are already a polarised society and this would create even more division.
The following are some potential effects of leaving:

Loss of Access to the European Court of Human Rights
UK citizens would no longer be able to take human rights cases to the Strasbourg Court after exhausting domestic remedies.This removes a key layer of external accountability for the UK government.

Undermining the Human Rights Act (1998)
The Human Rights Act (HRA) incorporates the ECHR into UK law. Leaving the ECHR would almost certainly require repealing or significantly rewriting the HRA. Courts could no longer interpret UK laws in line with ECHR rights, reducing protections.

Impact on Devolved Administrations
The ECHR is embedded in the Good Friday Agreement (Northern Ireland), and in the legal frameworks of Scotland and Wales. Withdrawal could breach the Good Friday Agreement and lead to constitutional tensions, possibly encouraging calls for independence.

Breaching International Agreements
The Good Friday Agreement and some aspects of the UK–EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement assume continued adherence to the ECHR. Leaving may be viewed as a breach of international law or undermine trust in UK treaty commitments.

Impact on EU Relations
The ECHR is not part of the EU, but EU agreements with non-member countries often require compliance with it. Leaving the ECHR could damage UK–EU cooperation on:
• Data sharing
• Criminal justice
• Extradition (e.g. the UK’s replacement for the European Arrest Warrant)

Reputation and Soft Power
The UK has historically played a leading role in promoting human rights. Withdrawal could damage the UK’s global image as a defender of the rule of law and human rights. It could align the UK more closely with countries like Russia or Belarus, which are not part of the ECHR.

Impact on Individuals
Reduced Legal Protections
Rights such as:
•Freedom from torture (Article 3)
•Right to a fair trial (Article 6)
•Right to privacy (Article 8)
•Protection from discrimination (Article 14)
could be weakened or harder to enforce.

Increased Executive Power
With less judicial oversight, government decisions may face fewer legal checks, especially in sensitive areas like:
• Immigration and asylum
• Policing and surveillance
• Prisoner rights

Polarisation and Division
Leaving the ECHR would likely deepen political divides both within Parliament and across the UK public. It may become a focal point in broader debates about sovereignty, Brexit, and judicial overreach.

Devolution and Independence Movements
Leaving could inflame support for Scottish independence and Irish reunification, especially if people feel their rights are being eroded.

caringcarer · 04/08/2025 02:04

Near to where I live a 12 year old has been raped by a migrants who allegedly came over on a dinghy. Of course people are angry. These people should be sent back immediately. It's almost always boats full of males. Reform will stop these boats by pulling the UK out of the ECHR and creating a UK Bill of Rights.

Nchangeo · 04/08/2025 01:04

Thanks @TheNuthatch

Nchangeo · 04/08/2025 00:37

TheNuthatch · 04/08/2025 00:36

So true.
This case is horrendous. There is a thread about it on mn. I don't know how anyone can defend the status quo.

Show quote history

Can you link please if you have it to hand. This is local to me so I would like to see if there are other locals on there.

TheNuthatch · 04/08/2025 00:36

ThisOldThang · 03/08/2025 21:42

How anybody can look at situations such as this and be against solutions such as Rwanda is beyond me.

So long as they've got that nice warm fuzzy feeling for being a 'nice person', it doesn't matter what happens as a direct consequence of the policies they support.

Narcissistic sociopaths.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/03/council-leader-police-cover-up-rape-asylum-seekers/

Show quote history

So true.
This case is horrendous. There is a thread about it on mn. I don't know how anyone can defend the status quo.

justasking111 · 04/08/2025 00:28

Nchangeo · 04/08/2025 00:21

And actually I just googled as we did have a rape last year of a young girl. A year later the name of the perpetrator has never been released. So who’s knows actually whether this was the first.

What concerns me is that these sexual predators will simply be moved elsewhere free to molest again. Rather as the church protected the priests.

Nchangeo · 04/08/2025 00:21

And actually I just googled as we did have a rape last year of a young girl. A year later the name of the perpetrator has never been released. So who’s knows actually whether this was the first.

Nchangeo · 04/08/2025 00:17

EasternStandard · 03/08/2025 21:55

Agree. It’s a harrowing read. Just awful.

Show quote history

Yes I am really gutted about this. That poor girl. That’s a town neighbouring ours. I am on one of the first few pages saying these hotels are in our area and thankfully there’s been no sexual assaults. Less than a week later and one girls life has been devastated. 12 years old! Can you imagine. Honestly I have no words right now. The government should be ashamed of themselves.

Julen7 · 03/08/2025 22:55

Kibble19 · 03/08/2025 22:51

Farage is the bookies favourite to be the next PM. The cries of Nazism, far right thuggery and racism are no longer making people feel like they can’t vote Reform.

Starmer might as well be Farage’s campaign manager at this point. He’s doing the work for him.

Yes making it so easy

Kibble19 · 03/08/2025 22:51

Farage is the bookies favourite to be the next PM. The cries of Nazism, far right thuggery and racism are no longer making people feel like they can’t vote Reform.

Starmer might as well be Farage’s campaign manager at this point. He’s doing the work for him.