Ban the burka?

@GreenCandleWax I think it’s important to recognise that calling the veil or niqab or burka a symbol of “female subjugation” isn’t an objective truth — it’s a personal interpretation. Just because you view it that way doesn’t mean that’s how the women who wear it see it.

For many that I’ve spoken to, wearing the niqab or burka is a deeply personal expression of faith, identity, or even empowerment — a way to be heard without being reduced to appearance, or a conscious choice to opt out of certain beauty standards. And historically, face veils have also served practical purposes — in desert climates, for example, they offered protection from dust and heat long before religious meaning was attached.

We talk about freedom and equality — but that has to include the freedom to dress in ways that don’t conform to mainstream norms. Otherwise, we’re just replacing one form of control with another.

They're used for shop lifting?

@inamarina With respect, I think it’s a bit disingenuous to imply that niqabs or burkas are somehow uniquely dangerous — especially when we don’t treat things like motorcycle helmets or heavy winter scarves the same way.

The real issue isn’t about walking down the street with your face covered — it’s whether that face covering poses an actual safety risk. A niqab doesn’t — no more than a helmet or mask does. And just like anyone else, women who wear the niqab are expected to show their face when required — at borders, in court, during security checks etc..

If we’re not banning balaclavas in winter or full-face helmets at petrol stations, then we need to be honest — this isn’t about safety. It’s about discomfort with something different. That’s the more dangerous line to cross.

I feel it is mine to point out to them that wearing it is a symbol of female subjugation, and that in this country at least, that is opposite to our values of equality. if they have been conditioned into wearing for religious reasons, i would feel the need to point out that there is nothing in their faith that requires it, but men are using them to make a point.

What do you mean “just because someone chooses to be oppressed”? Instead of helping those you supposedly care about from oppression, surely you’re oppressing them more by not giving them a choice? @Lioncub2020 You’re in favour of making their choice of clothes illegal by banning something. It sounds very oppressive.

I think it should be banned. Just because someone chooses to be oppressed doesn't make it ok.

Coercive control. There are laws that can deal with him too.

Surely a law would have to ban the wearing, not the forcing it to be worn. So it would be the woman who is criminalised. Plenty of men force vulnerable women to commit crimes every day. Or the women will end up being forced never to leave the house.

Can you explain this? I don't understand - if it's illegal to wear it then who is going to force her to wear it? If there's a legal penalty, forcing someone to wear it will shine the spotlight on the person who is doing the forcing. It can't be done in secret.

We’re not talking about operating theatres or other medical settings though.
Doctors and nurses don’t usually walk down the street with their faces covered.
No idea why people keep bringing up motorcycle helmets and surgical masks in a discussion about burkas and niqabs.
I think it’s disingenuous to suggest that those things are somehow comparable.

To lighten the mood, when my daughter was about three she encountered a couple of head to toe, covered in black, Muslim women. Poor thing, she was terrified, she thought they were witches.

I think all face-coverings in public places in the UK should be banned. 9n a point of detail about the burqa and the niqab, face-covering for Muslim women seems from my western standpoint to insult men, who apparently can't be trusted to remain pure at the sight of female flesh. Yet again, women carrying the can for men.

Agree. Hopefully not.

I feel physically sick when I see the burka. It affects me viscerally. It’s really triggering. It’s a terrible thing to see.

I was being bit tongue in cheek, but I meant for equality - both men and women should cover up. Why is it always the women who's expected to? Ridiculous.

People keep bringing up nuns, but nuns do not cover the face. Nor do people who wear turbans. People who wear turbans usually wear English clothes too.

I'm purely against it because the men don't have to wear it and are allowed to wear western clothes. If the men started to wear it, fine. Until then, its sexist and abhorrent. A way to control and oppress women.

'Briefly'?

You have never worked in a cath lab or operating theatre have you? Have a look at the surgical hoods that are worn in orthopaedic surgery, and yes they do wear eye protection too.

Can I just ask why is it only the women who have to wear burka/niqab etc? Men are allowed to wear western clothes. It should be banned.

If they don’t want it banned, then the men should start wearing it too.

I have worked in Saudi, women hold very senior roles in industry and government there and wear the burka while doing so, often with amazing shoes or high end trainers.
Burkas are taken off at home or in womens only spaces.
I also joined a womens gym there, they are amazing, no men grunting, sooo clean!! Women take off their burkas and are wearing standard gym crop tops and shorts/leggings underneath.
At home they wear what they like in front of their family, males included if part of the family so underneath the burka you will find they wear Beautiful clothes.
The burka is worn for cultural and religious reasons. I am sure many women don't want to wear it but many actually do. Its like, would toh go outside in your pants onto the high street. No, as it's not culturally acceptable. Or victorians wearing long dresses, they wouldn't dream of wearing a mini skirt.