Ban the burka?

If you don't cover your skin, body, hair or face, you will be punished. You don't know what's good for you because you're a woman.

vs

If you don't expose your skin, body, hair or face, you will be punished. You don't know what's good for you because you're a most likely to be brown woman.

Like two dogs with a bone, fighting over who gets to order women around.

I really don't like the idea of ideologically or religiously compelled clothing, personal grooming or modifiers to appearance, having lived adjacent to this and felt the absolutely crushing pressure to comply. But I'm also torn about the state telling people what not to wear. I do think that a visible face is an important part of social trust and cohesion.

Well can we ban lads on scooters from wearing ski masks please

So just because you disagree with reform you abandon a principle you believe in?

this is the problem with tribal politics

In an ideal world this would be my stance. But it is not an ideal world and whilst some women do were them out of choice, others do feel coerced into wearing them.

Yes, of course I do. I don’t think Reform are asking that question because of women’s rights though.

Do you not think burkas are a women’s rights issue?

No. If they try and make it about women’s rights and equality then politicians could do a lot more for all women, not just targeting some Muslim communities. To say it’s for women’s rights is completely disingenuous.

I don't think the state- any state- should single out any part of their population.

If the state makes it as obvious as just banning one particular item of oppressive clothing people soon come up with an alternative: same shite, different design & name.

A blanket ban of face coverings on the other hand removes all potential loopholes.

Education better than a ban = clearly education isn't working.

In fact MORE women are wearing burkas

Super inflammatory op, but yes it should be banned

What purpose does it serve?

Quite - and such women should be identified and supported and the men prosecuted for domestic abuse

women do not need to be controlled by men.

Agree with this.

Education of whom though? The men?
I can see your point how an outright ban could lead to some women being unable to leave the house at all, but I don’t think that the men who impose such restrictions on them would be particularly interested in being educated…

Are balaclavas part of a system of oppressing and controlling people who wear them?

no. Of course not.

banning the burka is about protecting women forced to wear burkas

Exactly. People always mention nuns and orthodox Jews on threads like this, but their attire is not really comparable with full face covering.

But it’s men who are dictating that women were the burkha - it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise

this is about women’s right to choose what to wear - but not the way you are saying

Absolutely not @TalkToTheHand123.

The state should not dictate what women wear, be it Iran, Saudi Arabia or UK.

Yes I think all face coverings should be banned in public. With the exception of a medical face mask covering mouth and nose only.

It’s not just a random piece of clothing though, is it?

Yes - I am all for informed consent and people being given choices.

But I am not sure how informed your consent is, if you risk alienation by relatives and have been indoctrinated from birth that it’s normal to hide your physical identity from birth. A simple headscarf I can get behind and dressing modestly (I wish more people did tbf!) but covering the face, your humanity, is awfully restrictive and only seems to be required by women not men.

And it’s not telling women what they should wear - it’s bannning a practice put in place by MEN

it is about MEN making women wear something

I think to make it fair all full face covering in public spaces should be banned. That includes balaclavas, helmets with black visitors and burka.

The point is that they are not choosing - the point is also that it is the tip of the iceberg in how these women are treated.

if black men who worked for white men were coerced into full body coverings when they were in public do you think that should be banned?